Essentially Sweetny and Duhan make around 6 or 7 million between them. Duhons deal expires after in the summer of 08 while Sweetny comes off the books next summer. It looks like Gooden is only expecting to make between 6 and 7 million a year to start out. CD says the Rockets are still in the Market for a 4. It is going to be very hard to get some one like Gooden this cheap again.
crash - are you serious? That "someone else" would need to be like Jimmy Chitwood -- something we don't have, I would guess. Honestly... I can't see Rafer having any trade value. The Bulls would make that deal for Gooden because they want Gooden. But one thing I guess we should know by now - you can sometimes find a GM who will make a rushed move based on some perceived short-term need.
I suppose we're going to completely ignore the fact that Rafer shot around 37% from 3 prior to last season, and in 3 seasons he has shot at least 37% or better from 3, including topping off at 39% not long ago. And all of a sudden, after an injury-riddled season where he defenses paid close attention to him because either Yao or TMac often werent on the floor, we're gonna say the guy can't shoot?
I don't know. Duhon is a career back up so far that has similar averages as Alston. Duhon has a .377 f/g% and a .357 3pt%. Sweetney is another player that is a career back up. If Goodens agent is correct about those two being the lynch pins for a possible trade for Gooden then I can't see why we couldn't put something together with Alston. As much as I would hate to see him go I would even use Luther to make the deal work. Surely Alston and Luther would be as intriguing as Duhan and Sweetney.
Maloney's best year was 9 ppg. Alston averaged 12 ppg with a team devastated by injuries. So, no, the Maloney and Alston comparisons don't fly. It's funny--a year ago, if you would have asked some of the "intelligent" posters on ths board if they would have accepted 12/6/4 from their starting PG, they would have jumped out of the roof from pure excitement. Now we have that guy and people say that want more, and what's even worse, mention that the man has no trade value. Incredible. It's as if the basketball IQ of some of these posters drops 20% with each passing day.
I got to admit I haven't been blown away by Rafer either, especially when I think how we gave up MJ for this ? However given that there is not much better available at pg and that at least he knows the system, I believe we are much better off keeping him. If we bring in JLIII and/or VS (possibly sura) to mix and swap skills as needed I think we'll be in good shape at PG. I really like that Rafer has rid us of our turnover penchant in past years.
you know....... I'm starting to think we "fans" aren't very happy with our team. If we "fans" thought we were so close to a playoff run, we wouldn't be looking to trade all but two players on our Roster. There is no way we would make the playoffs returning only two starters. & Juwon would fit well on any championship team in recent history. He won't score 30, but he does his Job........ So does Alston, & Head looks like a great talent, Stromile, and TMac's Health were the only weaknesses on our starting line. We've taken care of Stromile........ now...... Tmac We need to improve our ability to win when TMac isn't in the game.... or when Yao is temporarily unavailable. Like I said, I think Luther head is a great up and comer........... he's not a bonafide star, may never be..... but he's dropped 20 points on a few occasions. he's scored 26 & 28. Juwan has carried us a game or two in the past... And we're all expecting Battier to fill that void as well. I believe we have a good shot, to make a deep playoff run, with the people we have now.... if we don't replace another starter. we need depth on the bench......... preferably young.........
Actually the numbers with Yao and Tracy on the floor were fairly decent and could be interpreted in a number of ways. He shot over 38%, averaged over over 7 assists on only 2.3 to's per game. sorry, image was too big, so i'll just link it http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/stuartshowers/RAFER.jpg during the point when he became comfortable and tracy was still relatively healthy, he played his best ball of the season and was very efficient as a distributer. Can you imagine if he'd had someone like Battier to also pass it to? Someone who could actually hit a shot?
Whoops, there you go again. Are you related to Rafer Alston or something? Here you are touting a per game POINTS AVERAGE of Rafer Alston and giving him bonus points BECAUSE the team was "devasted" (ie "bad"). While a bad team is holding down Rafer, you discredit Mike James' incredible numbers for the very same reason. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=2372409#post2372409 And to be honest, I just don't understand where you come off ripping the intelligence of those on the board. It's a tired schtick. I mean, you're the same guy who blasted fans who even suggested that the team sign Mike James, yet the Rockets 100% agreed with those fans. James was their top free agent priority and was apparently a "trade kicker" away from signing with them. Maybe a little more humility on your part might be in order.
It depends on your definition of "fairly decent" I suppose. If you mean shooting poorer from the field, three-point line and charity stripe with Yao and T-Mac than his regular percentages, which are already bad, then yeah, he did fairly decent.
I don't think Rafer will be moved for one simple reason: need. He's the only true PG on the team, and it's not like the market out there is flooded with good PGs. If anything, they are looking to add 2 more PGs rather than subtract anyone. Van Gundy said last season Rafer will either prove he is a 32+mpg full time player or a 24mpg guy. It seems Rafer is more of the latter than the former. When he had to do too much due to injuries to other players, he forces the issue and makes mistakes. Kinda like Jason "White Chocolate" Williams, a guy who can contribute, but when he turns into "bad Jason", you better have some steadier hand (be it Bobby Jackson in SAC, Earl Watson in MEM or Gary Payton in MIA) ready to relieve him. Last season, the problem with the Rockets PG play is that when "bad Rafer" shows up, there was only Rick Brunson to relieve him and that's like pulling your starter in the 7th inning for a middle reliever with a 6.50 ERA. Brunson did OK for his limited talent level, but he's a marginal player.
His career fg% is .387, during the "healthy" stint with the rockets he shot .386 he also averaged over seven assists and kept the turnovers low. To me, that is "fairly decent". We knew we were giving up a slasher and scorer in James and in retrospect, it was a bad move. (probably). But, he is the distributor that they felt they needed last year, and I'm willing to wait and see how it works out with a healthy squad before I line rafer up with a bandana and a cigarette.
You did a good job putting those numbers together, so no knock on you -- but I'm writing an analysis on Rafer and I know he shot 37.4% in the 22 games with Yao and T-Mac, so I knew that math had to be a little off. In looking at the chart -- First, the average you should have gotten based on the numbers in your chart is 37.5% -- I'm not sure where 38.6% came from. Maybe one game missing on accident? Secondly, the 2/27/2006 game against the Suns on your chart has Rafer going 1-6 from the field. That was actually what he shot from long range. He was 2-9 from the floor. Total with the corrected numbers there should be 37.4%. More telling is that he shot 30% from long range in those games with Yao and T-Mac, while putting up 4-5 long balls a night. Ouch. To me, three-point shooting is critical out of both guard spots because of the potential for many wide open looks from beyond the arc. The Rockets run half-court sets. They have a dominant post player who takes lob passes and a wing player who sets up a lot of the offense by himself. The team needs a point guard that can run, play good defense and knock down the open three on kickouts. Bob Sura did a great job of that (and other things) in 04-05, and he was our worst three-point shooting guard at 35-36% (but nearly 43% from the floor). You could actually argue that Derek Fisher might be a better fit for the Rockets than Rafer. See, I'm more of the opinion that the Rockets have already established proof of concept on how to win. With Yao, with T-Mac and with Van Gundy. In 04-05, they finished the season 35-14 (.715 winning percentage) and won with offense and defense. Their three-point shooters during that stretch? Jon Barry (45.9%), Bob Sura (41.6%), Scott Padgett (41.3%), David Wesley (39.5%) and Mike James (39.3%) ... (this is why Rafer is a liability shooting the long ball at a 30% clip). Unfortunately, they built that team on the fly and did so with older players, foolishly traded one piece away, and now they start over trying to find the right pieces. But three-point shooting is mission critical, and I believe the Rockets agree with me as their pursuit of Battier and James shows (which reminds me of when I told Jonathan Feigen to tell CD to go get Battier). And yes, the Rockets were 15-7 last year with Yao, T-Mac and Rafer in the lineup, but they also were 6-3 with Yao and T-Mac and NO Rafer. They never beat a significant opponent -- as your chart shows, they lost to the Suns twice, the Lakers, the Spurs, the Grizzlies... they didn't have "it". But what do I know. Maybe it's an abberation. Maybe Rockets111 is right - Rafer is a great shooter. Maybe his 39% from trifecta territory four years ago as a reserve is the true telling stat and that Rafer is not really declining as a three-point shooter, as the last four seasons show. I have some hope... not much, but some. I do know this though - last year when he shot the rock, he sucked balls.
Not quite sure how Mike James entered the equation, but that's ok. The Rockets went after James because it's a thin free-agent class. The point is they HAD to do something; get a 3rd scorer and get shooting. If they really wanted James THAT badly, they wouldve thrown in the extra year and that trade kicker he wanted. But he wasn't THAT essential, it was just that he was the one of the better FA's available. So it's not like the Rockets actually "wanted" James. They "needed" him. Big difference. With that said, how does James relate to anything in this thread? We're talking about Rafer's value. All I said was that 12/6/4 are not horrific numbers for a PG and I don't understand why most think we can get better. Like who? Who's out there that can give us significantly better production from the point? Alston is a low-turnover player who has a pass-first mentality and prides defense and running a team over getting his own shots. Yes, he had a subpar year shooting-wise, but his career numbers show that he is a fine 3-point shooter who likely just had a down year--just as the whole Rockets team did.
I see the mistake. I did it on the fly and initially miscounted it as 21 games. I thought I fixed all the formulas but obvioiusly missed the fg%. As far as your premise on three point shooting being a major factor in the Rockets fate, I agree. But I liken a strong distributing Rafer to Adam Everett. I know he's not the defensive presence that Everett is, but if he can get everyone else going offensively and your other players on the floor sans Ming/PF are hitting their shots and 3's, you can carry Rafer for the good of the club. Also, I think that the team would agree with your analysis, and will try to counter Rafer's poor 3% with running a pf that can hit the three (Battier). They also obviously felt that the game James brought was sorely missed on this club (at least with the poor class of fa's out there.) But imho, when all is said and done, we won't miss Mike James and his megaphone mouth. I look forward to your full writeup, although I'm not looking forward to the increased amount of negativity that I'm sure it will generate.
Rafer to me has a place on this team as a solid back up point guard. 35 min plus at his age is to much. I Think splitting time with v-span or jl3 will be a good thing. Its pretty much a given now that if your legs are tired it effects your shot and one of the reasons his shooting was pretty solid in miami was that his min. per game where not that high. Once his min. per game are back down to the 20-30 range his shooting percentage will go back up.
I don't really understand what you're saying there to be honest... he's a shooter, a third scorer, they needed him, but didn't want him? It sounds wacked to me, but no real way of proving it. I would ask though: Why would Jeff Van Gundy, the first second negotiating became legal, be knocking at the door of a player they didn't really want? And according to CD, they did match the years. They tied their hands on the trade kicker, for whatever reason. And Rocket central was like a morgue when they lost him. Your defense of Alston and absurd downplay of James contradict each other. The basis you use for dismissing James' season with the Raptors should have you saying Rafer's numbers were inflated, not underappreciated. They also should have you pointing out that Matt Maloney's numbers were very good, considering that he was playing on a 57-win team with three of the top 50 players of all-time demanding the ball. The point isn't James but rather that you're contradicting yourself in order to defend Rafer. Also, points per game is not a good basis for what a player is. A guy who gets "12 and 6" doesn't tell me hardly anything about how good a player really is, much less a fit for a team. For example, Rafer averaged 16 points, 7 assists and 2.3 steals when Yao and T-Mac were both out. Does that make him a "16-7-2 guy"? Or is the fact that it took him 42 minutes a night and over 16 shots per game at 38.6% from the field, 30% from three and 55% from the free throw line more telling? If Rafer is hitting at a solid-to-high percentage, then you can talk about how much he adds to the team when everyone is healthy. Instead the Rockets 1-8 record in those games is more a reflection of Rafer rather than a reflection of what the Rockets didn't have playing with him in those games. If Rafer could hit 43% from the field and 37-38% or better from three, I'd agree that he was a good fit for us as a starting point. He's not really close to that right now.
he is a career 25min per game player but last year he averaged 38. If your whole career your used playing around 20 min per game and all of a sudden in a injury year you start playing 38 your body is gong to take a while to get used to the extra min. For most players as they get older the conditioning gets worst not better. Im not saying hes old just that after a career of playing certain length of time i dont think he will ever be effective playing 35+ min at this stage of his career.
Defenses didn't pay close attention to him. THey paid close attention to Yao or Tracy by doubling off Rafer. And wow, did he produce. edit: Clutch said everything I need to say so never mind the rest.
