That's great, but it assumes Rasheed allows them to sign and trade them and/or the team he's traded to has anything Atlanta wants. If Sheed's bound for NY, then he bolts the MLE and they get nothing or the Hawks take on various bad contracts for mediocre players. There's definitely something to say about having something already in hand. Plus they wouldn't have to deal with Sheed being a jerk as he played out the string in Atl. The Hawks are not getting Okur, the idea of them getting Darko is laughable, and it's doubtful they get Prince. They may be able to get Carlos Delfino though. Delfino's in Europe this year and will play in the NBA next year.
Time out a sec... What happened to the NBA rule prohibiting a player from being traded again within 45 days (or was it 60 days) of being traded initially? I saw where someone said there was a loophole in his contract but I don't think Rasheed Wallace's contract stipulations would override any NBA rule. Anyone?
Your suggesting that the Hawks want Sura, Rebraca, Hunter and Ham now as the best deal they'd get for Wallace. I'll be back just after 2:00 PM tomorrow to tell you that you were wrong.
NJR - I believe the thread starter misread the Tribune. No contract loophole is required. Any player can be traded immediatley if not combined with other outgoing contracts.
You're right, a contract stipulation would not override a CBA rule. There is a loophole in the rule though that Wallace can be traded as long as it is not in a package deal.
No, gater, I'm saying a first round pick, not having Rasheed pissing everyone off as the team tanks the season, and not losing any of the cap room they wanted when they made the initial trade is better. You've decided otherwise. Fine. We'll see what the Hawks do. They could trade him to someone else too. Who knows.
Hobbs - We can agree to disagree just a few more factors to ponder... * If the season ended today, DET's pick would be #24. * The EC Bulls have had capspace and picks for 5 years now and are marginally closer to making the playoffs. * Succesful teams IMO are built from a combination of picks, trades and FA signings. A DET deal W/O Okur, Prince or Darko is heavily leveraged in cap space only. * The Charlotte expansion draft is going to create trade possibilities that may not have existed otherwise. I guess it's just my opionion, but if I were the GM of the Hawks, I would require at least 1 starting caliber player for Wallace in any trade over the next 24+ hours. Otherwise, I'd wait to see which other teams are going to blow up after the playoffs.
From what I've heard, the Hawks are looking to move him not so that they can get a good player, but because they simply don't want him to play for them. If he's moved, I strongly suspect that it will be for expiring contracts and draft picks. For now, the Knicks are on the sidelines. Detroit has Bobby Sura ($6), Hunter ($3), Davis ($3), a couple minimums, and Rebraca ($4), but no way do they move a core player for a guy that could be gone come summer. They seriously have a shot, and the Hawks grab draft picks for simply trading expiring contracts. If he Rasheed leaves, well, the Pistons still have the cap space to resign Okur like they've been planning all along. They trade short term roster fillers for a short term playoff run ace card. Evan
How does a trade expection used if a team is under the cap ? In other words does the TE good enough bait compared to expiring contract?
GATER, I totally agree! It appears Detroit's only shot to get Wallace is before the trading deadline because their expiring contracts are worthless after the fact. Additionally I doubt the Pistons will trade guys like Okur, Prince or Darko for him. So I really dont see Wallace going to Detroit either before the trading deadline or this summer. Furthermore, if we assume that Okur, Ben Wallace and Darko are the PF/Cs of Detroit then where does Rasheed Wallace fit in? If Okur is their Center and Ben Wallace is the PF when where does Rasheed play? Does Okur go back to the bench? And where does that leave Darko in terms of getting minutes? I just don't see how it works here. For Rasheed Wallace, NY and Houston are much better places to play for him in terms of getting minutes and they both have more of a NEED for Wallace.
Without getting to technical, you can have cap space or you can have exceptions but you can't have both. For a team already under the cap (LAC, Jazz, Spurs, Wiz), sending the Rockets a $10m contract for a $5m (non-BYC) contract increases their cap space by the $5m difference. Herein lies a significant difference between cap space and the TE. Cap space can be used to sign FA's. The TE can be used only in trade and without any other exceptions. In this case, the trade partner doesn't get a TE, they get more cap space. For teams that are just over the cap, it's a different story. Let's say a team is $2m over the cap ($45m on a $43m cap). That team sends the Rockets $10m in contracts and takes back $5m. They are now under the cap by $3m ($45m-$10m+$5m = $40m on a $43m cap). Since you can't have both cap space and a trade exception, the $5m contract differenc is only worth $2m to this team. The real value of the ~$7m Rockets TE is flexibility. HOU can take in a much larger contract than they send out or they can use the difference to SnT. For example, during the summer, Mobley + Cato + the TE could be traded to ATL for Wallace SnT'd at $9.1m + Chris Crawford + Doleac + a future 1st. This gives Wallace a $9.1m contract and the Hawks have received Mobley and Cato for Crawford and Doleac just to broker the deal. All that is cost the Hawks was $9.1m in cap space. Could they have signed better than Mobley and Cato for $9.1m? Probably not. The other aspect of flexibility is if two over the caps teams want to make a deal and they are not close $ wise, the Rockets can take players and a picks to broker the deal. This can also be true if only one team is over the cap. Let's say NY and ATL want to exchange Wallace for FA Kurt Thomas. If Thomas re-signs for much over $7m, he becomes BYC and only has a $3.5m outgoing value to NYK. Let's assume Wallace will SnT to NY for $7.6m. The Knicks need to dump $4.1m in salary to make it work. With the TE the Rockets can absorb Othella Harrington (last year of his contract) and PG Frank Williams in exchange for 1st round picks from both NY and ATL.
An explanation from my above post: "For teams that are just over the cap, it's a different story. Let's say a team is $2m over the cap ($45m on a $43m cap). That team sends the Rockets $10m in contracts and takes back $5m. They are now under the cap by $3m ($45m-$10m+$5m = $40m on a $43m cap). Since you can't have both cap space and a trade exception, the $5m contract difference is only worth $2m to this team." Stated more clearly. The trade partner has a $5m contract difference but it is represented by $3m in cap space and $2m as a TE since you lose $ for $ of the TE when you go below the cap.
I can understand Detroit's interest in Rasheed but why jack with a good thing? They need their cap space to sign Okur to a contract he deserves. Unless they want to lose him, or, say, Okur is willing to play for a year or two at the max he can get (wasn't he a 2nd-rounder a la Cat?) But if we really want Rasheed, in one way or the other, the deal would have to be a big one, and involve a 3rd team and Francis (so long as we get someone else back who doesn't suck). Shipping out Francis alone for Rasheed, even if it worked contract-wise, would raise a cry and fury in Houston. Also, Atlanta needs to keep in mind that no free agent will want to play there. The city's support of the Hawks makes the Rockets' support look good. They need long-term non-expiring contracts. My trade-that-won't-happen: Steve, Cato, Pike and AGriff to Washington Kwame Brown, Brevin Knight, Mo Taylor to Atlanta Gilbert Arenas, Rasheed Wallace, Jarvis Hayes and Brenda Haywood to Houston.
Great explinations GATER! GATER, you really think the Hawks would take on Cato's contract? Why would they do that if they were so willing to dump Ratliff and Mohammed?
Deuce, This point is an extension of your excellent post further back in this thread. As you accuratley pointed out, the Hawks are on record with a priority of: 1) Cap Space = Room provided via the T.E. 2) Young players under contract = Mobley, Nachbar 3) Draft picks = conditional 1st rounder. I'm not going to defend Cato per se, but for perspective, SAR and Theo combined will make $25.6m for 2004-05. By contrast, Cato is ~$3m cheaper than just Theo. Cato's play of late makes him a reasonable value - 2 years @ $16.6m is not that outrageous any more. That said, with Brandon removed the Hawks have only $18.4m committed for 2004-05. They are going to have to populate their roster in some manner. They are not going to get every FA they persue and they will be allowed to sign their picks once they go back over the cap. I guess what none of us knows right now...how attractive will the Hawks be to FA's and how long a lead time is their manageent using (1, 2, 3 seasons) before they have to be competitive? IMO, the Charlotte expansion combined with the blowups of ATL and PHX will make for a lively summer!
If confirmed, you were right about what Atlanta would do. But I have little doubt that you will eventually see that I was right in how screwed their logic was. The Charlotte Bobcats will make the playoffs before the Hawks...stupid, stupid move. They got no more cap space than they would have had if they let Wallace walk in the summer. Detroit's pick is currently #23. With Wallace, it could be as low as #28 (currently IND). I can't believe someone gets paid 6 figures a year to do something this dumb. Have you seen the depth of the next draft and the list of next summers' FA's? With the Pistons and Knicks both panting over Wallace, the Hawks management was nothing short of brain-dead to not get 1 starting caliber player out of the mess.
I didn't necessarily think it was the smartest move, just likely given their goals and previous move. But, Atlanta has been mediocre at best for a long time, and needed to just blow things up. They may not be able to sign free agents, but they'll be able to pick off a few players from teams looking to cut payroll (similar to how Detroit got Cliff Robinson) and begin to build a foundation. Is it the right way? Dunno, but anything was better than where they were.
