Could Motiejunas and Jones both move out of the rotation?

I think it's good that they're both playing really well and appear set to battle for minutes. Isn't that what we were hoping for coming into the season?

 

Well it was what some of us were hoping for, but it was also obvious from the beginning that some just wanted the one they liked best to succeed and the other to fall flat on his face just to be right about who had the most potential/ability/upside.

They both play well, they make the team better while also increasing their trade value around the league if a big name player comes available. Them both succeeding is the best possible scenario in every way imaginable for this team.

 

Ah. Luckily, I missed those debates.

I think they both have huge upside, and they both seem like nice guys/good teammates (at least to me), so I'd love to see them both continue to get minutes and challenge each other to improve. I don't necessarily think their skill sets are so duplicative that only one can thrive on this team.

 

Dmo should've been in the rotation. He and jones both bring value to the team.

Mchale just struggles to use guys based on their strengths. There is nothing wrong with extending your rotation a little bit and getting the most out of your roster. There is good talent here. Mchale just needs to get these guys to get the most out of it. Get guys to play to their strength and limit their weaknesses. Be creative with his line ups to give us the best match ups against opposing teams.

Made 0 sense to not be playing dmo and letting him develop some. I am a fan of his and jones. I like both.

 

DMo was impressive we should Not trade him for peanuts

 

I've always felt D-Mo should be playing backup C since Asik quit. Casspi at the 4 really kills us most of the time because he's simply not a big man. D-Mo, while not a monster, gets in there and affects the game on the interior, and doesn't get abused on the post. He's visibly stronger this year.

Aside from that it slides Jones to the 4, and Casspi to the 3, where both players are much more effective.

If they start giving him some regular post touches, and stop having him float around the perimter, he will be all the more effective.

 

Actually we could and would not trade Asik and him for peanuts

 

had to come in this thread, I always see you talking about having reliable bigs in here & it ook me awhile to understand. But after watching the pacers game last night I really see what your saying about getting to an championship. You have to really think about it deep to understand. When the warriors were making the run last night shooting 3s etc it looked like the pacers were out. But once the game slowed down the last 4mins….. 1. They could go to west for a post up or a pick and pop jumper. 2. they could go to hibbert 3 they have paul goerge at the top like we have harden. Then they have 4. lance 3 & D 5. hill defense and taking care of the ball

we have 1. harden up top 2. howard in the post but freethrows are a worry. 3.____________ we dont have a reliable BIG option they we can go to. But we have 4. parsons 3 & D 5. bev defense and taking care of the ball

I think jones can delvop the shot and post moves but the thing is he still has develop that. Hes great for a playoff run but the thing is were trying to win a championship.

 

I like DMO's game. His biggest issue is staying out of foul trouble. I have seen improved rebounding from him. I'd also like to see him work on his mid range jumper and the coaching stuff to feed DMo more in the low post.

DMO with mid range J plus post up = deadly

 

I dont think anyone here is actually arguing with BHollic that the Rockets dont have a sure-fire championship front line that compares to the likes of Indiana or Miami (if you consider Lebron/Bosh their front-line) RIGHT NOW.

What people have a problem with are his arguments from before that get modulated over time as to never actually owning up to being wrong about players he didn't want in the lineup to begin with-

At the beginning of the season it was this-

-Jones and D-Mo aren't the answer in October ... trade them ASAP while they have value. (yes he actually argued this back then)

Then it was-

-trade for Derrick Williams, Jason Smith, blah blah blah stop gap player every two seconds.

BHollic is right in some ways that yes, Jones and D-Mo aren't ready for a Final's series against the Heat or Pacers RIGHT NOW, and present some challenges from a spacing issue with their unreliable shooting but he just needs to slow his role sometimes and add a little more logic to the scenario.

The facts are-

-The Rockets WILL upgrade if they have a chance to (the Millsap trade push last month only proves this).
-Jones and D-Mo can still be developed & improve in the meantime
-Many successful contending teams in the past have had subpar shooting bigs in their rotation and have done just fine.
-Sometimes the best trades are the ones that never happen (see Horry/Bullard for Sean Elliott)

 

Pacers bring Mahinmi off the bench when Hibbert sits. Mahinmi is a very good defender and rim protector. So, they've got 48 minutes of elite to very good paint protection. They also bring Scola off the bench behind West. That's a championship caliber quartet of bigs..playing in the right roles. People that think Scola is washed up don't watch enough basketball. He's still nails.

The playoff series between them and Miami is going to be epic as long as they stay healthy. I'm hoping they do.

It is very unfortunate that we can't get Omer to buy in here. Very, very unfortunate. Because he could really be huge and would make the big man rotation a lot more competitive.

I'm still an advocate of the twin towers. I truly feel that if Jones can co-exist with Howard for umpteen minutes a game that there is absolutely no reason why Howard and Asik can't co-exist for 10 minutes a game which would allow us to have our 48 minutes of interior defense to exceed teams like the Pacers. We could then go smaller the rest of the game and truly spread the floor with shooters and create space for guys like Harden, Lin, and Parsons to make cleaner plays. I am still convinced beyond the shadow of a doubt that this sort of big man combo, Howard and Asik plus a legit 3-point shooting 4, is the ideal big man rotation for this team and would make us a very serious threat to win it all or at least to give Indy or Miami all they wanted. For as good as Jones has played, I don't feel like he's the right mesh for this team and I think it shows up when we play really good teams, teams that we are going to see in the playoffs.

We either have to trade Asik for legit pieces to help this team or he needs his a... kicked to kingdom come by McHale, Harden, Parsons, and Dwight until he gets his a.. back in the lineup.

 

Amen!

 

Yes I did say that and I still believe it. I believe those guys had more value in training camp than they do now. Jones' value may have increased slightly but not very much and DMo's trade value has continued to plunge. NBA gms aren't all stupid. And this year nobody is turning loose of any draft picks of any value. Jones was drafted at #18 I think and DMo was drafted somewhere around 20-21 I think. At the deadline, their trade values will have further diminished. Most NBA GMs know Jones can't shoot the basketball. They know he's on the level of a player like Tyler Hansbrough, a decent defender with his athleticism if he plays alongside an established vet center with some moxy that can help cover for his mistakes. They also know he can't shoot outside of the paint. They know what he is. His trade value hasn't spiked despite all the hype that has been given him.

I did advocate trading Jones, DMo, and Smith (for salary matching purposes and trade value purposes) for Derrick Williams. I still would advocate that trade today. Derrick Williams is a better player than all those 3 guys. And he'll have a better career. Derrick Williams can shoot the basketball. And he's also got a decent handle and even more finishing ability than Jones. Williams is the better player and the better fit over Jones/DMo/GSmith at the 4 on this team. Sorry you can't see that. But he is. And Derrick Williams would explode if handed 30 minutes a game starting next to Dwight and Harden, way more explosion than Jones has. We simply have a difference of opinion here on players. You apparently think Jones is better than Derrick. I happen to believe Derrick is the superior player to all of Jones/DMo/GSmith.

I do not think Derrick Williams is the end-all be-all of power forwards in the league however. There are other 4's that I would prefer to have .... including Millsap. But I did suggest that trade simply because I believe Williams is the best player of that group. And I believe that Williams trade value would have spiked here since he is a former #2 pick. So, he would have been a more tradeable commodity at the trade deadline now...and his higher salary would have given us more opportunities in trades...since he is one player. That's how I was viewing it. That's how I still view it.

Jason Smith is another player that I know is a good fit here. He's one of the best midrange shooting bigs in the game, and he's the type of player with the type of stroke that could be honed into a great corner 3-ball shooter. He plays good defense, and he's got some street fight in him. And he's got the perfect contract, expiring $2.5 million deal. Before he was injured I was advocating trading for him in training camp. We had too many guys in camp. I was advocating taking Greg Smith/2nd rounder/and expiring deal and seeing if we could steal Smith. I also advocated seeing if we could move DMo/GSmith for Jason Smith and a future first/second. Once again it was about value and contract fit. If we could have traded for Smith and got him to agree to an extension with a raise and a SMALL guarantee, I think we could have turned Smith into quite an asset. He would have been in the rotation from the get-go and his trade value (if he remained healthy) would be on the rise as he played a vital role on a championship contender. I still wouldn't be surprised to find Jason Smith on our roster and right in the middle of our big man rotation at some point..maybe even next season as a cheap minimum salary signing if he is indeed injured and out for the year. Jason Smith is a better player than Jones/DMo/GSmith.

Perhaps the above commentary will suffice you about me "owning up" to what I said and what I believe.

I.have.not.changed.on.what.I.believe.about.this.team.and.the.big.man.rotation.since.we.signed.Dwight.

Got it?

 

awesome D'Mo interview

"Patrick Beverley was in everyone's ass at practice"

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Good to see Dmo looking happy and content :grin:

 

You are just stubborn and dont seem to know alot about bssketball. When you call mahimi elite rim protection,then im starting to question how much you know and watch. The trump card is howard. Hibbert really only plays well when hes not opposed to someone his equal. Even in the last matchup howard clearly outplayed him. West outplayed jones,that was a given because it was jones 1st go around. George,hill,and stephenson dominated their matchups. When that happens, the rockets will lose as they did. It had 0 to do with the big man rotation. Indy doesnt have anyone the rockets should double.

Again,being stubborn,doesnt mean youre right. You say the twin towers would be a good look,but it was a disaster offensively and defensively. If this team had better guard play and more consistent guard play, the team would be alot closer to your championship form you would like.

 

I'm surprised this thread is still going, the obvious answer was "No." so it could have ended at that.

 

Well you are right about me being stubborn. I am that.

But I didn't say Mahinmi was elite rim protection. For that I'm wondering how well you read. I said Hibbert and Mahinmi was elite to very good rim protection. Hibbert is the elite and Mahinmi is the very good. If we had Asik coming off the bench behind Dwight we would have elite to elite rim protection.

Understandamendo?

As far as the rest of your post goes.....whatever dude. I don't know if you believe the big man rotaion is our achilles heal or not. But it is. And if nothing changes between now and the playoffs we will be able to look at our playoff exit and see it very clearly. Because the matchups we will lose that will cost us a playoff series will be the big man rotation matchups.

 

Delete.... F it


You spin me round, round, like a record baby right round, round, round....

 

We are??????

LOLOLOL

Here's some cold, hard facts.

We are 8-10 against teams with winning records since Terrence Jones became the starting power forward.

We are 6-8 against winning teams in the Western Conference since Terrence Jones became the starting power forward.

--------------------------------------------

I have read posts in thread after thread about how bad Beverley is, how bad Lin is, how bad Harden is, how bad the other perimeter shooters are, how bad McHale is, how bad, Morey is.

But the truth is how badly those guys are playing against good teams are just symptoms of what the real problem is.

The problem is the big man rotation fellas. Look no further than the last 2 games against a playoff team playing power basketball. The Thunder, Spurs, Clippers, Trailblazers all play power basketball and Dallas is right there with a banger center and Dirk.

What happened last night and the night before fellas? Here's what happened. The opponent had 2 legit power bigs, 2 guys that know how to player together WITHOUT space and dominate the paint and rim. They abused us defensively because Jones is simply not big enough to be a factor alongside Dwight in those scenarios. And they abused us offensively because Jones can't shoot. While you are complaining about all the other guys shooting poorly you have to watch...the......games and understand why they shot so poorly. Here's why. Play starts. Harden handling, dribbling around, pick set, Zach just hanging out on the paint area as a 3rd defender. Jones open outside. Ball swings to Jones. He throws a shot fake against an invisible defender and discovers that Zach or Marc is playing about 8 feet off him so he can't effectively drive around him and he swings the ball to the corner or back up top to another teammate who has to go way out high to catch the pass because their defender is face guarding them, shot clock winds down, and we gotta throw up some slop.

Guys, against elite defenses this scenario repeats itself a thousand times. Aganst power teams this scenario repeats itself over and over. Now, against lottery teams this scenior happens and TJones can drive the ball into the paint area and get his little finish off......because..........it's a lottery team and a lottery team defense.

When we play teams like Memphis and OKC and San Antonio etc. etc. etc. you have to understand something. We either have to go big (twin towers) and match them defensively OR we have to truly spread the floor and get Zach's fat A.. on roller skates attempting to defend a legit shooter at the 3 point line and a guy that if he dives out on he can then wrap around Zach with the dribble drive.

Now, you want to talk about raising the shooting percentages of our perimeter shooters? You want to figure out why none of our guys can shoot? C'mon now. They all still know how to shoot. But they're having to take contested shots. When you play elite defenses you have to match them with elite offenses. You gotta really have 5 guys out there that are legit threats. Jones is not a legit threat in that scenario.

Now, on the defensive end, when you play elite power teams like Memphis, the Spurs, OKC, Portland, you've gotta match their power if you are going to play a defensive game and win. I'm going right back to the point I made at the beginning of the season about playing Omer and Dwight together. Jones CANNOT matchup with Zach nor Marc Gasol nor Timmy D nor Dirk nor Blake. Guys he's not effective defensively against the elite power teams. Memphis with Zach just chewed right through us last night.....again.....as they have done so often over the last several years with that combo.

Now remember we beat Memphis early when Marc was out. But the last 2 games should tell you something. We won't be able to beat Memphis in a 7-game series if both Marc and Zach and the rest of their rotation is healthy. (Not unless we made some sort of acquisition or get Asik to playing again.) They are a better TEAM than we are.

This is our team with Jones and DMo in the rotation. We're a first round exit waiting to happen and if we get lucky in the first round, we're gonzo in the second. Jones and DMo are not rotation players on a championship contender.

Now....I'm sure somebody is going to point out that we've beat the Spurs twice. Go right ahead. The Spurs are the best in the business at making adjustments and variance in their playing style. And they are a hybrid power team anyways with their ability to stretch the floor. If we played them in a 7-game series right now it would likely be a dogfight with us on the bad end of it. However, I'm sure there are some of you that will go on and on about the Spurs. And ignore everything else I keep telling you.