Could Motiejunas and Jones both move out of the rotation?

You probably should re-read my signature. I'm not a big Kantor fan. I really don't think Kantor is going to have a long career because of his knees. And if you read my signature you will see I only want to acquire him as an attractive chip to another team.

However, Kantor has offensive game in spades compared to Jones and Kantor by himself right now would be better for this team than Jones BECAUSE Kantor can actually shoot the basketball and has the confidence to take the shots and because Kantor is a true center. Kantor would be a much more effective backup to Dwight in the middle for the short term while he is somewhat healthy than Jones will ever be.

 

Wasn't sure if I should take this seriously.

Kanter is terrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrible. Damn, his defense might be even worse than DMo's. FACT. His offense and rebounding might be marginally better than DMos, but to say he'd be better than T-Jones? Blasphemy. I wouldn't trade Jones for two Kanters straight up.

 

Jones can't shoot. Okay

Jeremy Lin is having a career year shooting the 3. Chandler Parsons is a little above his career average. Casspi is right at his career average.

Overall, all other Rockets are lackluster. Rockets as a TEAM are near BOTTOM of league in team 3pt%

1st month of season -
Casspi was shooting real well.
Garcia was shooting decent first month.

That was 1st month with OMER ASIK Twin Tower setup at power forward, or Dwight at power forward.

What kind of FLOOR SPACING outside shooting do THOSE guys provide? How are you gonna spin it that Omer Asik somehow opened the game up for for other players with his "outside touch" that needed to be respected?

Terrence Jones comes in, and all of a sudden HE'S a lane clogger thats a DETRIMENT to ALL the other Rockets players? Omer Asik's offensive game creates open looks more than Terrence Jones?

 

I have NEVER said that Asik's offense creates more open looks than Jones' does. NEVER!

What I did say is if you are going to have Jones out there clogging up the middle and low blocks then you might as well put a healthy Asik out there who is a far superior rebounder and defender than Jones. What I did say is if Jones can't shoot from the outside there is no reason to have him out there over Asik. I meant that. And I still mean it. Dwight Howard and Terrence Jones is nothing more than a Twin Tower combination without the second tower.

 

It's a shame that this argument is pure fiction, a fantasy of an immature mind who is trying to find a reason to hate on Jones, despite his emergence.

I wonder if you know how many of the Rockets top 10 "5 man" units this season include Terrence Jones at PF alongside Howard?
That's right. All of them.
Jones is the only player to feature in all 20 of Houston's top 5 man units.

And, funnily enough, with Jones ON the court, our offense performs better than with him OFF the court, and that's by 5 points per 100 possessions.
And the eFG% for the Rockets with Jones ON the court is 54.1% With him OFF the court it's 51.8%.

There's plenty more in his favour, head on over to 82games.com and take a look.

Again, your arguments are based on no fact, poor reasoning, and sheer desperation to make out that Jones isn't a valuable part of this team. You seem fairly ignorant, unable to participate in rational discussion, and not open to admitting you're wrong.

Will probably put you on "ignore"

 

Ugh. Perspective.

Rockets Top 10 doesn't equate to championship caliber. We are 5-7 against teams that are over .500 since Jones became our starting PF. Doesn't matter for the purposes of contending for a championship about Jones' development. It matters to Jones and Jones' fans about his development. He's not ready to help us win a ring nor will he be by the end of this season.

Go ahead and put me on ignore.

 

I'm not arguing you about tjones at all (although I still feel he is the weakest starter defender on this team)

But the 5 man lineup argument burns me up. I may do a article about this down the line in the offseason but using this as an accurate gauge of how players translate to winning basketball blows my mind. Unless they actually have significant minutes (meaning they are the same unit which starts or closes games) it really has no significances as their are so many factors which go unaccounted.

 

Also this ignore crap that basketballaholic gets is garbage. He gets a bad rap for being known as the trade guy or having limited knowledge but in fact he actually has surprised me in certain posts pertaining to cap or cba regulations.

 

I'm sorry but who other than basketballhollic actually has said that the Rockets are currently "championship caliber"?

Trying to win and considering yourself sure-fire contender are two different things. Morey knows damn well that the roster is not complete yet, his insistence on getting as much as possible in the impending Asik trade, and his explorations to trade Lin as well scream.. WE AREN'T THERE YET.

The Rockets have 2 Superstars and their glue-guy #3 all-star caliber player, but other than that, there are alot of supporting pieces needed to either be home grown (potentially Jones, maybe Casspi, Bev, etc.) traded for, or signed as free agents, and lastly TIME TOGETHER TO GEL to have a complete team ready to contend.

The Rockets, as currently constructed, are a borderline 50 win team, who (if everything breaks right) could make a playoff run. They can improve either internally or externally to take that next step up, but they aren't there yet, and their record & recent play reinforces that statement.

 

I have not said we are championship caliber. I have said we are not championship caliber.

But the PRIMARY IMMEDIATE GOAL is to be championship caliber. The immediate goal is not to develop Jones or DMo or Canaan or anybody else at the expense of waiting to become a championship caliber team. The immediate goal is to be a championship caliber team.

That's why I say don't be surprised if Jones or DMo or Greg Smith or all 3 are traded by the deadline. Because the PRIMARY IMMEDIATE GOAL is to become a championship caliber team and the SECONDARY GOAL is to put ourselves in a position to be a championship caliber team for several years with Dwight/Harden/Parsons.

 

Yes but you are completely ignoring the fact that YES it is possible for this team to grow both in the short term and over time into a much improved Championship caliber team, and that it is possible, and that BELIEVE IT OR NOT every player in the league 100% of the time actually ISN'T available VIA trade as you make it seem.

The Rockets TRIED to trade for Sean Elliot(all-star caliber player) multiple times back in the 90's and were "stuck with" Horry & Bullard, but still managed to improve their situation by continuing to develop Horry and Cassell until they could upgrade... oh and (even though the trade didn't work out in the end) by not being able to trade for Sean Elliot they increased the value of Horry and Cassell enough so when the time was right they were able to trade for Charles Barkley (who was still performing & considered a true superstar still before coming to the Rockets).

Even then, that kind of reinforces the point, that maybe the Rockets should have stuck with their young players instead of upgrading.

The Rockets WILL UPGRADE when they get a chance to, but that doesn't mean in the meantime they can't further develop guys like Jones and D-Mo to see if they can't upgrade some of these spots internally before making a dumb knee jerk move that sets them back years.

Imagine the Celtics trading Rondo back in 2007 for (at the time would have been an upgrade) Ray Felton, Billups, Stephon Marbury, or Mo Williams. Keeping Rondo turned out to be the right move then and now even though you could look on paper then and say... yes we are improved in this category immediately.

You make it seem like your Quick Fix trade scenarios are so damn easy to accomplish, and completely ignore any repercussions of making short sited deals. You make it seem as if the Rockets dont win the title THIS YEAR, the organization is going to implode and be sold off to Kansas City this Summer or something which is unfair. Give it a break man and relax... They will upgrade when they get a chance.

 

....that BELIEVE IT OR NOT every player in the league 100% of the time actually ISN'T available VIA trade as you make it seem.


I have never said that nor do I believe that. LOL

In fact, I believe we are waiting for the right trade, not just another lateral move. There are a lot of trades that we could do that would be small upgrades to the current team. But they in and of themselves would only make us marginally better while possibly limiting our future ability to get a whole lot better. And there are a lot of trades that could be done with Jones right now that are totally lateral. But the right trade hasn't been there. Heck, we can't even get the right trade done for Omer Asik. Why would I think that we could possibly just trade TJones for anybody and everybody. Besides that ... if you read my prior posts you would see in the trade TJones thread that I said we could probably only get a second rounder and an expiring contract for TJones right now. His trade value simply isn't there.

And you would also know that I have repeatedly said that this teams top 2 needs are 2 primary bigs to play with Dwight, not one big to play with Dwight and TJones but 2 bigs to play with Dwight. That means I think Jones needs to be replaced twice, not just once. When and if that happens, Jones will move out of the rotation and at that point we may be legitimate championship contenders.

Horry and Bull.....those guys weren't 2nd year rookies. Different situation. They were more like Asik.

We are obviously continuing to "develop" Jones. The reason is WE HAVE NOBODY ELSE RIGHT NOW and we started this Jones' experiment knowing we would have to make trades. Now we really can't bench him yet...until the trade deadline is past or we make a big move prior to the trade deadline. Benching Jones at this point would drive his trade value negative. And we can't have that going into primary trading season. We've got to maintain his trade value at either zero or somewhat positive so in case the right trade comes along we can make that deal.

But once the deadline has past and we've gotten our backup 5 (whether that be Camby or some other 5 we acquire) don't be surprised if Jones' minutes drop considerably and he becomes the 10th man again.

 

Not at all using this as an accurate gauge. But its noteworthy that only 1 player features in all the 'most effective' lineups. If nothing else, it highlights SOME value.

The thing which carries more significance is that Jones IMPROVES our offence while he is on the court, both in real points terms, and also in FG% terms.
basketballholic showed his ignorance by repeatedly making the case that Jones was the reason other players were shooting badly (etc etc). For some reason he hates Jones, and can't wait for him to go.
If this thread is about whether Jones/Motie move OUT of the rotation, one would have to suggest the answer (on Jones part) is "heck no".


I do think his defence could improve. But part of that is simply youth and experience. The positive factor is that he was an excellent man defender at college, so one might fairly imagine he'll improve on that front in the coming years.

 

I do not hate Jones. I'm not anxious to "get rid" of Jones. I am anxious to get an upgrade to the big rotation and get a championship caliber big rotation. Because without it we are going nowhere.

 

What? The fact that jones can take guys off the dribble and get to the rim creates space for dwight. That 30% u speak of from 3 isn't kyle korver,but that's 1 make since he doesn't shoot a lot of them. You're getting worse bro.

For the record,horry was drafted in 92 after missing playoffs. The lost to sonics in 93 2nd rd ,the next yr the rockets tried to trade him. Trade declined and they won the title with horry in his 3rd and 4th yr. Now how was that different than now? All of the main players on this team are much younger than on that team,yet we don't have time to develop Jones? Whatever.

If somehow they can get a all star caliber upgrade, I'm sure they will do it,but until that happens, jones plays and is getting better. You act like the guy has to be a 40% 3 pt shooter or something. You also act like time in the gym won't help him go from 30 to 36% which is what he was shooting earlier in the season. Someone said you are good at cba and cap stuff,maybe that's your thing because recognizing basketball progression is not. Its not about this year as hard as that maybe for you. A lot of you new guys are in love with trades as if that's the only way to improve your team. Players get better. Lebron has gotten better. Durant has gotten better. Paul George has gotten better blake griffin has gotten better,but jones can't,hasn't,or won't?

 

Tell Morey it's not about this year. He'll tell you that you are full of ....

 

Yeah, but in his head he will know that it isn't that the team is not complete.

This is a year about chemistry and finding pieces for a future run.

This is NOT a championship year.

DD

 

Sure in your words 'we are going nowhere this'. Everything better than a first round exit will spell "progress".
The Heat had absolute the best talent of a decade or longer and they could not do it their first year.

We have nowhere near the talent. Sure Harden is a Top SG and Dwight near Orlando level but those positions are not the deepest of positions.

They are probably borderline superstars compared to "absolute superstars" that are only Lebron, Durant and maybe Chris Paul.

IT TAKES TIME AND STRATEGY.

 

If you want to call Harden and Dwight superstars, then I call Lebron and Durant
'Los Galacticos'.

 

When was the last time we had a pf who put up 19p 17rebs and 2 blks,then 12p 12reb 3 blks and 2 stl the next game? Just so u know, horry shot 25%,32%,and 36% his 1st 3 yrs as a rocket. After the 1st yr,he never avg more than 10ppg as a rocket. Yet,he was the starting 3 his 1st 2 yrs and the stretch 4 after the Clyde trade.

Basketballhollic, did you know that?