Could Motiejunas and Jones both move out of the rotation?

Value in the rotation…. Talk about modulating an argument. How about how the Rockets now have the best offense in the league & are up to 13th in defense since Jones entered the starting rotation?? Hows that for value in the rotation??

The OP and argument throughout this thread was that Jones & D-Mo are not rotation players at all on this team, and that apparently doesn't speak well on their future with the Rockets (for which you said they should be moved ASAP because of future trade value).

Now you want to modulate your argument to state that the argument is that they are now supposed to be "Championship rotation players". Not really even sure what you mean by that. Either you are capable of contributing on a good team or you aren't. A contending teams rotation players are simply players that fit what the team is trying to do and make the star players better. Of course there are better players out there, but that doesn't mean Jones is a bad fit by any stretch. I'm sure the Rockets would have loved to upgrade from Mario Elie to Dominique Wilkins back in the 90's, but that didn't mean that Elie still didn't contribute and fit in well.

Dwights' production since Jones entered the starting lineup has gone through the roof(making the stars better), the team overall is producing much better on both ends(fits what the team is trying to do).

So what is it you are expecting from the starting PF every night… 20 and 10. You think on a team with Harden, Howard, and Parsons that any player could get that type of production without taking the ball out of the hands of your best 3 players???

I'm not asking anyone to crown Terrence Jones as the next Chris Webber or anything, but God Damn… give the kid some F-ing credit, and stop trying to modulate your arguments. The fact is TERRENCE JONES IS IN THE ROTATION, and the team is better for it. You and CXBBY were wrong. Face the music.

 

Preach the good word!!!

 

nice post

 

My expectations of our needs at power forward in our rotation:

1. The ability to shoot the 3, in volume when needed, at a healthy 36+% off pick and pop play at the 3-point line.

2. The ability to play NBA caliber defense at the PF spot OR the ability to match opposing power forwards in points production and efficiency. This means being able to water down the efficiency of players like LaMarcus Aldridge OR work LaMarcus over on the offensive end as much as LaMarcus works him over on the defensive end.

Notice I said "water down" not stop. You can't stop guys like Aldrige. They're gonna get their shots. It's a matter of how inefficient you make them with all the shots they take. Our PF needs to be able to either do that or be enough of a scoring threat that he offsets whatever he gives up at the PF spot.


These are the 2 primary criteria for successful PF play on this team with the way we play ball.


The other option is if you are going to play a power big at the 4...like Greg Monroe or other 4/5 guys that essentially are a backup center with slightly more shooting range. Same general criteria applies.

Our rotation bigs need to be either dominant rebounders and defenders and/or efficient shooters from distance.

 

When OP made his original post neither DMo/TJones were rotational players on this team. The only reason TJones is getting minutes right now is because we have no one else. The hole in our team right now is still the 2 big rotation spots after Dwight.

 

That's like saying my EXPECTATIONS are for a wife that looks like Adriana Lima, cooks like Giada, is a Nymph in the bedroom like Jenna but has no STD's & will be happy with a $500 dollar ring from Service Merchandise.

You are completely delusional if you think its that easy to find anyone in the league who can even "water down" an elite big man, plus is an elite stretch 4 & rebounds the ball like Rodman much less one THAT IS EASY TO ACQUIRE at the drop of a dime.

It takes an ELITE defensive big to even "water down" superstar bigs like LaMarcus & Dirk when they are on their games. Nobody shuts them down completely, and the majority of adequate defenders get burned on a nightly basis. Thats why these guys are unstoppable and nobody has yet to figure out how to take them out of ballgames yet.

Then at the same token you want an elite defensive big that can also shoot 36%+ from 3???…

Its clear to me (been clear for awhile) that your "expectations" (who died and made you Les Alexander) are completely unreasonable on purpose to suit your arguments. Jones could be putting up 20Pts and 10 boards a game, and you would modulate your argument to state that he was taking shots away from Harden and Howard.

I think Jones has done a fine job at making this team better and has potential to be a very good player for the forceable future. If they can upgrade the position than of course I am all for it. But I'm not about to carry this nonsensical philosophy around that if just because a player isn't Dirk on offense, and Rodman on defense in his 2nd year than TRADE TRADE TRADE… oh and preach to everyone that Jason Smith and Derrick Williams are the answer.

 

Paul Millsap can do the above. I'm not delusional.

A healthy Varejao can do the above. I'm not delusional.

Ersan Ilyasova can do the above. I'm not delusional.

Ryan Anderson can do the above. I'm not delusional.

 

I am curious why Cxbby hasn't showed up since then.
Basketballholic is still going strong.

 

D-Mo worked with Hakeem because of his size. If you put two and two together Hakeem obviously passed on the news this guy sucks.

And the truth is he does. 90% of defensive plays he has vision mistakes. He isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

As for Jones, well he is undersized and it has shown with his multiple 2 rebound effort nights.

IMO, Jones is just another Carl Landry or Patrick Paterson. I liked them all, but lets get real -- none are going to be fantastic.

 

I believe we will end up with Thad Young after an unsuccessful attempt at trying to acquire Paul Millsap.

Thad is currently with Hinkie and they should help each other out in years to come. Hinkies team is doing too well for a tanking team, hence the idea of creating a silly team at least until Feb of 2014.

Hinkie started pulling the team apart as soon as he walked in, and I don't think this was the finish product he was expecting. The team is currently outperforming itself and that's not good news for his plans.

It's also reported that the reason the Rockets want to trade him now is so that they can then make another move before the Feb deadline.

This also works on the other side of the fence too. AKA so that Philly can move Asik before that deadline.

The Rockets won't move Asik to the West and that somewhat limits what they can currently do. Hinkie on the other hand, doesn't care where he goes and I don't think the Rockets really do either once we are that late into the season.

 

Continued:

Just looking at the ladder the 76ers have already dropped down so nevermind that.

I still think we will have Thad Young though.

 

He is already a better rebounder than Carl Landry and Pat ever was in his second year. (first and a half)

 

Ohhh so now Varejao is a volume 3 point shooter? That's convenient.

Oh and since when were PF's like Anderson or Ilyasova ever become considered PF's that could ever hold their own against the likes of LMA or Dirk on the defensive end?? Look up how these guys fair against the like of Dirk and tell me if they really made life that much more difficult than any other starting PF.

Again I never said that the Rockets shouldn't upgrade or that any of these guys aren't considered upgrades (even though your earlier campaigns for Jason Smith and Derrick Williams are not upgrades) but there is no indication that these players are being given away for peanuts or that Morey doesn't consider that their contract situations might alter their plans for another better deal.

You are oversimplifying your case and are not taking into consideration the entire long term organizational goals. With you it's just "I don't like this guy, trade him today and I bet x player would be the answer." In the end these guys aren't playing to lose, they are going to upgrade where they can, but they aren't going to just toss out their second year players to the curb because they aren't dominating Dirk on the defensive end and shooting lights out from three on the other end.

I'd like to say that NBA gms are smarter than fans like this and plan much better but then I couldn't mention the Sacramento Kings or the professional basketball franchise that used to be in New Jersey. Fortunately for Morey and Rockets fans, there are owners and GMs that are that short sited and knew jerk so we can fleece them when they want to make knee jerk trades.

 

Jones only glaring flaw for his role IMO is just fundamental stuff such as boxing out and defensive rotations. I expect that to be fixed as the season goes on. His 3 point shooting is fine.

 

Jones is a lot like Odom, and will probably maximise in a similar role where as long as you keep him away from the bad matchups (tall, excellent fundamentals), he'll be highly productive. Because of this, I'm sort of warming up to Millsap because he's just such a high iq player (if we could stick his brain into Josh Smith, we'd have another Lebron) with solid fundamentals, good shot selection etc (pretty much exactly what we need from a pf), perhaps the complete opposite of Jones.

Dmo at this point just looks like he'll be back in Europe in a couple years.

 

Nobody knows what Dmo looks like because he doesn't get any consistent playing time. From what I have seen it looks to me like Dmo could have a very good career in the NBA.

 

Most of this post doesn't even make sense. The problem with your criteria is 21 yr olds get better. What did ryan anderson do in the playoffs when the stop doubling Howard? Elysova is a nice player,but again,he's a 3 who can't dribble good enough to play 3,but can't really play the 4. Thing is,the rockets aren't good enough to just have specialist. You want as many good players you can get and who brings versitility. The rockets won a championship without this so called stretch 4. Who was the so called stretch 4 with duncan or david robinson. What about ewing? Stretch doesn't mean he has to shoot 3s. As long as he has range,like jones and can put it on the floor like jones can do,howard has plenty of space to operate.

In regards to his matchup vs lma,when lma is hitting like that,there isn't really anything you can do. When howard switched on him,he he step backs in his grill too. Now all of a sudden anderson or those guys are gonna stop him. Its a matchup that you trade off. I'm not saying you let him do what he did,but even so the rockets were in position to win that game. Not to mention it was jons 1st time playing lma. Next time around,he has a better fel of what he can and can't do. Also ,don't act like casspi and parsons weren't guarding him either. Not to mention some of the interior drive and kick wide open shots he got.

There isn't. Anyone on this board who wouldn't want to upgrade a position. I think rondo at pg is a bigger upgrade to the team than getting milsap,elysova,or anderson. As I staed before,the rockets are having trouble with situational ball. They have guys freelancing shots when the other team is on a run or when the rockets are on a run. They have big v small matchups and someone will jack a 3. Those kinda of shots and situational ball will hurt the team in the playoffs.

 

Yes, Jones is 21 years old and needs to develop.

That is not what we need to win a championship.

 

The biggest glaring flaw is his lack of experience. No amount of talent or athleticism can substitute for on court experience.

Jones played above his expectation and people lost perspective that he is still a sophomore. He is expected to be inconsistent, focal point of opposition attack, and won't reach his peak for at least another 5-6 years (around 28-year old). PF is the our ONLY position that's way below league average and most immediate/obvious way to improve the team. It's not a knock on Jones but we need an upgrade if Rockets are expected to contend.

 

Jones, even though his % still looks good, is not respected as a shooter. Teams still sag off him and dare him to shoot. The ability to attract defenders is even more important than the actual %. Jones has still been really good, but short of great IMO, I think he can still be much better.

D-Mo too, the rockets offense is still great. But neither guy has actually shown the ability to stretch defenses yet.

As much as I love D-Mo's potential, his performance just flat out hasn't been there. I still want to see him in the rotation, this team needs to think long term, and I think it's worth risking a few regular season losses to see what he can do if given a shot regularly.