again, if Allen is such a better shooter, and doesn't take bad shots, why is his fg% only slightly better than Steve's. FG% doesn't lie, its straight forward, you either make the shot or miss it. For as much credit as Allen gets he's a slightly above average player, and he has played on better teams than Steve regardless of Big Man.
dell curry is a career 45% shooter. we all know he was a pure shooter though. does this mean steve is as good a shooter as dell curry? hey, the numbers say so, right???
Hey, it doesn't matter if Dell is a better shooter, he still only hit 45% of his shots, do you get it. He still missed the shots. If Dell Curry shot 30% for a season, he still may be a better shooter, but he still hurt his team by shooting 3 for 7. Get it. It doesn't matter if Ray Allen is a better shooter, the percentages are the same, so he missed almost the same number of shots as Steve since their averages are close, and a miss is a miss, even if you're Bird. Do you get it.
3 for 10, sorry. Does Allen misses count less because he shot a good shot? Because his shot looks prettier? They still shoot the same over their careers while scoring the same, so Ray Allen may be fun to watch, he still hurt his team as much as Steve with their misses.
Ray Allen's best season was 00-01 22.0PPG, 5.2R, 4.6A, 2.5TO 1.3ST .48FG .89FT .43%3 SF best season was 01-02 (except for shooting) 21.6PPG, 7.0R, 7.0A, 3.9TO, 1.2ST .42FG .77FT .32%3 At their best I'll say yes they are close--probably what Steve gets in cumulative stats (SF edge in RB & Ass) you can credit Allen in efficiency. But, Allen is 3 years post his best season, 2 years old at 28, and has missed significant number of games each of the last 3 years. They look to be on different trajectories physically and Steve has a long term contract he will likely complete while playing on a high level--that is why Steve would be a much hotter trade commodity
I think it is interesting tho'. If the game is mental, which many agree it is, then I'm not sure that you can equivicate a Jordan shot with a Steve Kerr shot for example. If jordan makes a basket it changes the whole game. The crowd gets into it. The other team is psycholigically beaten, and it seems as if everything becomes energized. If Steve Kerr makes a basket the game seems to just stroll on by. By that token, a Ray Allen make or miss is possibly more important than say a Brent Barry make or miss. You could argue that a Ray Allen miss is more psycholicially damaging because everyone expected the "pretty"shot to go in. But you could also argue it the other way, if Brent Barry misses 10 shots people get pissed. If ray Allen misses 10 shots nobody will care. It's just my opinion, but from a mental standpoint, not all players shots are considered equal.
The difference is that Ray Allen has always been the one drawing double teams, not benefitting from them. If Allen was on the Rockets he would get the same wide open looks at threes that Steve gets.
Insider's post to this thread: Should the Sonics trade Brent Barry? By Chad Ford NBA Insider Send an Email to Chad Ford Thursday, November 20 Updated: November 20 8:51 AM ET Sonics general manager Rick Sund is living the dream. One month ago, when Ray Allen injured his ankle, the team didn't know where to turn. Allen's backup, Brent Barry, had moved into the starting lineup to take over the Sonics' point guard duties. Their only other option was an unknown second-round pick from Shaw University, Ronald Murray. As Sonics president Wally Walker and I sat inside the Furtado Center and watched Murray scrimmage with the rest of the team during training camp six weeks ago, Walker watched Murray in amazement. "He's got so much confidence," Walker said at the time. "I don't know if he's a point guard or a two guard or whatever, but I do know that this kid thinks he can play with and score on anyone. You've got to have that to be successful in the league. The kid thinks he's an All-Star and . . . who knows." Ronald Murray Shooting Guard Seattle SuperSonics Profile 2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT% 9 24.0 4.3 4.2 .485 .672 Fast forward six weeks in time. With Allen out and Murray playing 36 minutes a game, Flip ranks fifth in the league in scoring at 24 ppg. He's shooting an impressive 48 percent from the field, grabbing 4.2 rpg and handing out 4.3 apg. Three weeks into the season, the Sonics still don't know exactly what they have in Murray. Is he a point guard? Shooting guard? Combo guard? "I don't know," Sund told Insider. "I think this debate about what position a player is has a lot more to do with the media hype. I know he's a guard. I know he can score. I know he can distribute? Is he a pure point guard? No. But I say that only because he clearly has the versatility to play multiple positions." Sund goes on to compare Murray to Joe Dumars, Vinnie Johnson and Andrew Toney. "No one really knows what position they played," Sund said. "They just were great basketball players." OK. So let's cut to the chase then. When Allen returns from his ankle injury in mid December, is Murray or Brent Barry going to be running the point for the Sonics? "We'll deal with that when it happens," Sund told Insider diplomatically. Sund then goes onto a number of topics that hint at what is going on in Seattle right now. Brent Barry Guard Seattle SuperSonics Profile 2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT% 9 11.9 3.9 5.4 .493 .783 Sund talked at great length about the value of having Barry as the starter. "He's a purist," Sund told Insider. "He's got the mentality of a coach on the floor. Our team has the third least playing experience of any team in the league. Having a guy like Barry on the floor really helps with the chemistry of our team." But Sund is equally effusive of what Murray has brought to the table. Sund told Murray the story of Wally Pipp and Lou Gehrig when Allen went down and coach Nate McMillan decided to use Murray in the starting lineup. "I told him to take advantage of the opportunity and he has. He's done a helluva job filling in for Ray," Sund said. "I think he could bring us a lot of injury off the bench playing spelling both Ray and Brent. But it's tough to sit someone who has such a hot hand right now." The only problem with the Pipp-Gehrig analogy was that Pipp wasn't getting his job back six weeks later. Will Murray's confidence take a nose dive when Allen returns? Sund even envisions a lineup that has Murray and Allen in the backcourt, Barry at the three, Rashard Lewis at the five and Vladimir Radmanovic playing center. That would be the best shooting starting five in the league, but like the Mavericks, they'd be a serious liability defensively. While all of that may work on paper, and may even work in real life, perhaps the Sonics should take the opportunity to make a bolder move. Perhaps they should trade Barry now while his value is sky high and his contract (he's in the last year of a deal that pays him $5.4 million) is very moveable. Sund knows the question is coming and chuckles when I ask it. "I know a lot of people are thinking the same thing," Sund said. "I said at the beginning of the season that we were going to use this year to evaluate the talent that we have. We wanted to see whether Rashard could get his game to an All-Star level. Whether Vlade could be a starting power forwards in the league. And whether Flip was going to be something more than a prospect." "So far the answers to those questions have all been very positive. But the season is far from over. I think we still need more time to evaluate what we have. We're going to have a lot of patience." That makes a lot of sense, but it's becoming pretty apparent that the Sonics' backcourt of the future is Allen and Murray. The Sonics could still use a more traditional, low-post scorer. Doesn't it make some sense to move Barry now and bring in another young, talented player to do some of the dirty work in the paint? Those dead-eye shooters the Sonics have on their roster would be even deadlier if the team could get a player who commanded a double team in the post. There are deals out there that make sense. The Pacers are still searching for help in the backcourt. Pacers president Donnie Walsh tried to pry Barry away from the Sonics this summer. The Pacers still have a logjam at forward. With Jonathan Bender coming back any day and the Pacers promising to get him consistent minutes, a Barry-for-Al Harrington swap makes a lot of sense for both teams. Harrington is exactly the type of young, athletic low-post player the Sonics need. Shareef Abdur-Rahim Power Forward Atlanta Hawks Profile 2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT% 12 16.8 9.3 2.5 .459 .844 The other scenario, rumored since the Sonics almost pulled off a Gary Payton-for-Shareef Abdur-Rahim trade several years ago, would have the Sonics sending Barry, Jerome James and Radmanovic to the Hawks for Abdur-Rahim. While this trade would be much harder for the Sonics to swallow because they don't want to give up Radmanovic, Abdur-Rahim is the type of low-post rebounder and scorer who could catapult the Sonics into the playoffs. And at 26, Abdur-Rahim still fits into the Sonics youth movement. Sund patiently listens to the scenarios, but still, for now anyway, is standing by his guns. "The hardest thing to do right now is to stay conservative," Sund said. "We've been very aggressive over the past few seasons rebuilding this roster. Of course you still have to listen to what's out there. But I think this team has the same type of potential that Dallas did a few years ago when Nowitzki, Finley and Nash started to gel together. We're young and it's going to take time, but I think we're all committed to patiently seeing this through."
what they should really do is see if there's any offers for murray. yes, the dude is going bananas right now, but what if it's a one season fluke? barry has been a consistent player and i dunno why he's been slumping right now. i'd see what i can get for murray if i was seattle. never know, they could land a 4 or 5 with him.
