Could Duncan be just as good or better than the dream

Mrspur

you emphasise that hakeem played more games than robinson

you say thats the reason for hakeem having better career numbers

you also say that even though robinsons career averages are less than dreams the difference is so small that they should not be used in comparison

but you forget that even though robinson has played 4 fewer years... his averages are still less than hakeems... therfore even if robinson had played the same amount of years his numbers would not have been better

I will also add that hakeem is not only the only player in history to have 2000 blks and 2000 steals... he holds the record for being the only player to record 200 steals and 200 blks in a single season... a season in witch he didnt even win the defensive player of the year.

Could d-rob have ever done that?

 

You are kidding right? I understand your bias for Hakeem but Duncan has yet to even reach his prime and most people would suggest he is the best player in the league. How can you even compare any of the three guys you mentioned above to Duncan? And please don't get started with statistics. If you want to go down that route than:

<I>* Barkley is better than Hakeem in 7 statistical categories compared to Hakeem who beats Barkley in 5. The categories are listed below </I>

Barkley (7 categories) - FG%, 3PT%, FG%, Offensive Rebounds, Defensive Rebounds, Total Rebounds, Assists Per Game

Hakeem (5 Categories) - Steals Per Game, Fouls Per Game, Points Per Game, Blocks Per Game, less Turn Overs

Does this mean Barkley is a better player? Of course not.

It is understandable that you want to defend Hakeem but lets get serious.

Duncan is only going to get better statistically and as a leader on the floor. By the time he is through, he will have probably collected 5 more NBA Championships and another 3 or 4 MVP awards. Hakeem had a great career, a hall of fame career, but to deny Duncan's possiblity to be greater than Hakeem is just closed minded. Duncan is at the same level of dominance that Hakeem was at his prime, even if you think this is hard to swallow. The simple fact is Duncan does things on the floor effortlessly and you might not appreciate his style of play. He doesn't need to pump fake, up and over, turn around fadeaway or hook, etc... Simply because he is a mismatch for any other player in the league right now, he just shoots over, bank shots, and dunks, etc... It's vanilla but it's fundamental basketball, hence Duncan.

Say what you will, but Duncan's best days in the league are still to come. Only a few stubborn Rocket Fans will, in the end, think Hakeem had a better career.

 

Chalk that loss up to TD. If he merely goes 4/9 from the line, instead of 2/9, game goes to OT.

How many times does Duncan have to choke before we can put this topic to rest?

 

Um...once again, Duncan has yet to hold a candle to Dream DEFENSIVELY, and I'm not even talking about Dream in his prime. His offensive numbers are not better than Dreams, so how in the heck can you make a statement like that?

 

What are you talking about...Duncan already has a career scoring average that is higher than Hakeems and more assists per game.

What do you mean by offensive numbers?

 

If you look at Dreams stats not including the last four years, then you would see that Dream's offensive stats were higher. Also Dream continued to get better until the injuries made him a shell of his former self. Duncan on the other hand doesn't look any better now than he looked his second year in the league. He has not added anything to his game. Right now there is no comparison between the two. However, this could change in time.

 

Well I do agree with you, Dream did taper off at the end of his career, so those statistics shouldn't be counted. But than, what we are talking about is peak performance years. <B>By that argument, Dream simply beats Duncan hands down in the statistical category.</B> However, I have never been a fan of statistics expecially when discussing the issue of who is better than who.

As for Duncan not looking any better now? I disagree, Duncan is without a doubt a better floor leader. Statistically he is better now in almost every major category. <B>So there is a positive trend that he is improving year to year.</B> And you must remember, he is improving while being consistently being double/tripled teamed this year compared to his sophmore year in which Robinson still was a major factor on the offensive end of the floor.

As I said before, I don't think Duncan at this point is better than Hakeem but I think Duncan can be placed in the same category/same level. <B>I don't think comparing Hakeem and Duncan is a slap in the face to Hakeem.</B> Duncan is the best player in the league right now, a 2 time MVP winner, a playoff finals MVP winner, 1 NBA World Championship (as first option), 5 time all NBA first team, 4 time all NBA defensive team, 1 time all NBA second team. Those are not shabby accomplishments. Other than Jordan and Shaq name one current player who is more accomplished?

 

Why are you including 3PT% in your comparison? It is probably a typo, but you have FG% listed twice. BTW, Hakeem wouldn't go 3-10 from the FT line in the Finals.

 

I included 3PT % because it's a major statistical category. I realize he is a center but I didn't want to be bias about what statistics are more important than others. Simply, when I was comparing Duncan and Hakeems statistics I added 3PT% to give Hakeem another statistical category. So when I was looking at Barkley and Hakeem, I decided to leave that in.

 

Mr. Spur:

You're argument that Hakeem winning more def player of the year awards than David is due simply to longevity is absolutely r****ded but indicates exactly what kind of moron you are. Hakeem won BOTH of his DEF player of the Year awards WHILE ROBINSON WAS IN THE LEAGUE.

You can cry all you want, but no one with a brain would compare Robinson to Hakeem. That's just stupid.


-Duncan has shown this playoffs that he is about as clutch as Cris Webber. The guy CONSISTENTLY chokes at the FT line and in clutch moments. He pulled a Nick Anderson in Game 1 against Phoenix, went 3-10 in an NBA finals game last night to single-handedly cost his team the game by choking, then pulled a Nick Anderson as well in Game 1 against the Mavs and airballed a 5 foot hook that could have won the game. He's not clutch at all and never will be and being CLUTCH is more important than anything else offensively.

-As for the argument that he's as effective now as Hakeem was in his prime, that's ridiculous. Hakeem was averaging 37 PPG against the MVP in his prime whereas Duncan is putting up 26-28 PPG against guys like Dirk, Amare, KMart, and an aging Robert Horry.

-Hakeem made his name in the playoffs. His playoff stats careerwise are significantly better than Duncan's and when Hakeem was at the FT line in the clutch you weren't worried, but when TD is at the line if you are a Spur fan you have to basically close your eyes or just hope he can hit the rim at least. His FT's aren't even close most of the time in the clutch. The Spurs will undoubtedly win the title this year but this talk about Duncan being as good as Hakeem or Shaq or MJ? Give it a rest. That's a joke.

 

-Probably 1,000,000.

 

Hakeem > Duncan > Robinson

Duncan is a lot closer to Hakeem's greatness and dominance because of his post up skills. That is what seperates Hakeem, Duncan and Shaq from Drob (even in Drobs prime) because the latter just could not dominate in playoff games because he didn't have great low block skills for the half court set.

I will say it is possible TD becomes the equal offensively as Hakeem in a few years. Duncan isn't there yet, but if he can improve his FT shooting a nod and continue to improve his passing he could pretty much could make up for Hakeem's greater quickness and be a wash with Hakeem offensively.
However, it will be impossible for TD to ever be the defesive presence Hakeem was. The quickness, reactions, & explosiveness just are not there compared to Hakeem. TD in my opinion will never equal defensively the next best group of defensive 4s or 5s of the last 20 years as well, this group that follows Hakeem is headed by Drob, Mutumbo, & Mourning and you can probably include the Shaq of 3 years ago.

I do think it is reasonable to compare TD to Hakeem--he certainly is the closest thing to Hakeem going right now. IMO he probably never will match him as a dominant player as I think we are seeing the peak Duncan because his fundamentals just don't have much room to improve and athletically Hakeem has too much of a natural edge, what you have to remember is Hakeem didn't peak until the late 20s because that is where he had been playing the game period for 10 years or so. Those think Drob deserve mention with Hakeem are just clueless, in the primes Hakeem just destroyed him on the way to another playoff MVP trophy--Drob has admitted the better player won--only the most delusional homers are still seeking excuses. It would be like me saying in Hakeem's last playoffs he really was better than Shaq but the Rockets losing was because Barkley and Pippen didn't give him the ball enough and the refs colluded against Hakeem. No, the better player that year just dominated--I can admit that.

 

the difference between Hakeem and Tim is desire

I still think hakeem would never let his team lose where Time sometimes disappear in the end. Whether its the coach or not i don't know. since we all know rudy goes to the same play over and over until it fails miserably where Pop likes to go to dffernent options many times in the end of games

 

No the difference was that Hakeem was an athletic freak. Hakeem's combination of quickness, reactions, body control and strength is peerless. Duncan is a fine athlete and ahead of Hakeem in basic basketball fundamentals, just not close to Hakeem in natural quickness and reaction time.

 

I'm a Houston Rockets homegrown fan who now lives in San Antonio for the past 3 years and I have often asked myself this question.

In fact, the very reason I like watching the Spurs is that they remind me so much of hos the Rockets of old used to play.

I agree with most people here that Hakeem was by far superior athletically and that Tim's game is more sound than Hakeem's at the same age. Tim will probably have a better career in the long term, but Hakeem is the best and could even argue that he was better than Abdul-Jabar.

 

Dream never let his team lose? He won 2 titles, what happened the other 10+ years did Dream forget not to lose?
Dream may have been more "Clutch" in his prime than about any other player outside of MJ in my time but Timmy is just getting into his prime. It's not fair to say Tim has less desire than Dream. I think many people on here (and in the NBA) said Shaq would never win a title because he wasn't dedicated enough (acting, rapping, etc) early in his career, but Shaq certainly showed many people he was dedicated enough.

You can't compare careers of one player who career is over and another who is just entering his prime. You can only compare potential, and Tim has the potential to be one of the best of all time (certainly the best PF ever).