http://adam4d.com/explaining/ Everyone wants an answer they are comfortable with. My advice: seek Him.
I've been trying to see Kim all day but the girl won't answer my calls or when I knock, should I camp outside her apartment in my car with a telephoto lense?
This is exactly why it is hard to take you and your kind seriously. I type up a thought out comment and you respond with a canned and stupid cartoon that someone else made. I actually had legitimate questions that led me away from the religion but you ignored them. I have talked to friends and family and pastors and they all respond in a similar manner. I have never had them answered directly, just responded with slimy and slick deflections. I would literally be the greatest revelation possible it if God and Jesus were real, but I can't believe without evidence and some serious holes cleared up. As it stands for me the existence the Christian God and Jesus are no more valid than Odin, Zeus, Krishna, Jupiter, the easter bunny, Santa Claus, Krampus, magic and wizards. We are just highly evolved animals who already live in paradise and we live and we die. Man has created religion to fill the voids left by death and ignorance. Since we are posting pictures to explain our viewpoints: Spoiler
Baumer, if you really want to know the truth, I will help you in person. It's very difficult to help someone through a message board.
I was in your place once. A huge skeptic. I'm an engineer, I ask a lot of questions. How's this? How's that? It was when I accepted Christ, my whole life changed. I wasn't always a Christian. Only until recently. That's when I gained wisdom more valuable than any worldly wisdom.
Asked that question myself... 0- is eternal damnation even real... a- A limited God. You are already now and forever (eternity) tortured by the simply lawful nature of the universe and a limited God can save you. God isn't so powerful that God created everything, start the torture regime and then save some. It's that God came in later to save you. b- The limited God is no God at all. It's human imagination creating some external factor. Work in the same way. You aren't really saved, you just think you are. But if you can be so convinced that it doesn't matter. Imaginary God might as well be Real God. c- There is really no God at all and no need to imagine a God. You already have it within you to save yourself. Look internally and everything is there. You save yourself from current torture, to some degree, until you achieve such a degree of enlightenment that you are saved for all torture in your current life. No ONE know what happen after death. It might be lawful nature that death is not really death and "you" in some form still continue. So if you achieve some level of "saving" yourself from tortures, that "energy" might carry forward and you are indeed saved from eternal cycle of torture. Or, you just vanish and nothing is left. d- I forgot, take drug and you get a temporary hit. Some people, Outlier it seems, came to some realization or amazing experience and somehow that is so convincing that they absolutely believe. That's a personal experience that is not rare and occur all the time by all kind of people with all kind of religion or non-religion. Some Muslim have the same level realization, some Buddhist, etcs... probably even some folks from 5000 years ago worshiping Zeus. It indicate to me that human have that capacity to reach some level that words can't describe and (a) it is foolish to think that one way is the only way, (b) it is dangerous and harmful when that thought become actions of forcing other to follow your only way, (c) there might be a higher power over everything at work, (d) that higher power might be simply lawful nature of the universe. My inclination is there is no personal God. The universe is very lawful in it's movement and unfolding. Human is part of the that movement. Human have all kind of creations to help coup with the suffering that human faces on a daily basis and some of them have stuck around because they do work very well. But there is an unknown that no one know and may never know, so it's fine to have creations to deal with that unknown. And who knows, maybe all of those creations, when practiced to the end lead to the same results - ultimate freedom. Just try not to pull other people down on the way there and other people wouldn't care what you do, and hey, might see the benefits you get and join you.
My God is very personal. I've been saved... many times before. From suicidal thoughts, my addictions, all the wicked things that was harming me I was able to let go. I found peace in Him. There is no other religion where their god stepped down from heaven and became a man and gave up everything and died for their sins. Other religions you have to do something "religious" to get to heaven. My God simply LOVES. Christianity is all about relationship with the God who loves, is faithful, is full of glory, joy, and happiness.
I'm late to this debate and took a brief reading over the thread. I wish I had more time to give more thoughtful input here, but I'll just say right now there are a lot of differing worldviews here and even differing theology on Christianity. I can say, I probably disagree with most everything that's been stated here to some degree and that's no surprise given the diversity of our culture. I will say that among the topics discussed that I am a 5 point Calvinist (though a little iffy on the Limited Atonement part). which means yes I do believe the unbelieving lost is destined for eternal separation from God....or hell most as discuss it here. It seems many here have a hard time with reconciling a loving God with a just God, meaning if God loves how could be damn the lost to hell? Conversely if God is truly just and perfect, how can he permit evil and sin into heaven? The tension in this question is the reason why the Cross, death and resurrection of Christ is fundamental to Christian theology. It also highlights how God has operated with humanity throughout Old and New Testament through the various covenants (Adam, Abraham, Moses, David, Christ). I will also say that some here in this thread has suggested that Christ and the Scriptures must be understood in the context of the culture in which Jesus lived and in which the bible was written in. Yes, I do agree that understanding context is essential for interpreting the bible, but I do also think that thought Christ entered our world in a period of human history and culture, the bible and Christ transcend culture. Meaning: Christ is not AGAINST culture (the church fighting against the culture) Christ is not OF culture (the church changes with the culture) Christ is not ABOVE culture (the church sits in an ivory tower apart from culture) Christ does not simply CO-EXIST with culture (the church and culture stay in their own worlds) My view is that fundamental Christian doctrine views Christ as the TRANSFORMER of culture, meaning His Church must engage the same way Christ did to ultimately transform and redeem the culture, leading first with Grace (i.e sacrificing Himself on the cross to reconcile humanity to Him, so that humanity could hear Truth and find salvation). there's a ton of good theology to unpack there and I'd love to participate in the debate respectfully. I've got to step into a meeting now, so I really just wanted to put my two cents out there and where I stand. I'm fairly conservative in my theology, which I believe empowers me to be liberal in my practice as a Christian.
Why cant he just forgive and skip the bloody part? We tortured and killed himself (or his son - really confusing) and he then forgives us? If god has What universe is that sense of justice considered moral?
If you won't answer any questions on here, why would I expect it to be any different in person? I appreciate the offer, I know it is from a good place. I just have had these conversations before and they always end the same way.
LOL. Another Chrisitan apologist site. Why can't somebody provide an answer without quoting the bible? If you use the same sequence of events and remove god as the main character and replace him with a guy named Bob, nobody would even consider this character's sense of justice is morally corrupt. But... we make excuses for him because.. well we know why.
