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Controversy surrounding recent octuplet birth in California

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by underoverup, Jan 30, 2009.

  1. underoverup

    underoverup Member

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    if this is all true it is just crazy, single mother that already had 6 kids and was already pregnant! :eek:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/30/earlyshow/health/main4764432.shtml

    Octuplets' Family Filed For Bankruptcy

    CBS News has learned that the family of the octuplets born this week outside Los Angeles filed for bankruptcy and abandoned a home a little over a year-and-a-half ago.

    Early Show national correspondent Hattie Kauffman says the mother is in her mid-thirties and lives with her parents.

    There's been no mention of the octuplets' father, Kauffman observes.

    The grandfather, she adds, is apparently going to head back to his native Iraq to earn money for the growing family. He told CBS News he's a former Iraqi military man.

    Kauffman reported Thursday, and the octuplets' maternal grandmother now confirms to the Los Angeles Times, that the babies' mother already had six young children.

    And a family acquaintance had told Kauffman that two of the six other kids are twins, and the six range in age from about two to about seven.

    The mother's name is still being kept under wraps.

    But her mother, Angela Suleman, also tells the newspaper her daughter conceived the octuplets through a fertility program.

    Suleman told the Times her daughter had embryos implanted and, "They all happened to take."

    On The Early Show Friday, the scientific director of an Atlanta-area fertility clinic blasted whichever clinic did the implantations, saying he's "stunned."

    Doctors at the hospital where the octuplets were born, Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center in Bellflower, Calif., some 17 miles southeast of L.A., say the patient came to them already three months pregnant.

    Asked at a news conference whether fertility assistance should be provided for a mother who already has multiple children, Dr. Harold Henry, part of the team that delivered the octuplets, said, "Kaiser has no policy on that, adding that doctors counseled the woman on her options.

    "The options," said Henry, "were to continue the pregnancy or to selectively abort. The patient chose to continue the pregnancy."

    Dr. Karen Maples, who also helped deliver the octuplets, read a statement from the mother saying, "My family and I are ecstatic about all of their arrivals."

    The woman and her children live in a neighborhood of small, one-story homes, Kauffman reports, all with two-to-three bedrooms at most. Soon, she pointed out, there will be 14 children and at least three adults living in one of the homes -- until the grandfather heads back to his native Iraq.

    Kauffman says unanswered questions include where the woman got the fertility treatments and how they were paid for.

    On The Early Show Friday, Michael Tucker, scientific director of Georgia Reproductive Specialists, says all these developments leave him "stunned. As the story's unfolded and it's gone from the potential use of just fertility drugs, or misuse thereof, to actual, apparently, IVF (in-vitro fertilization) with transfer of embryos, this is just remarkable to me that any practitioner in our field of reproductive medicine would undertake such a practice."

    Tucker, who has a doctorate in reproductive physiology, says it's "absolutely" possible the octuplets' mother got pregnant with them by taking fertility drugs on her own without the help of a clinic, "and that seemed the most plausible scenario, simply because the profession, we're policed by the American Society of Reproductive Medicine, has focused so minutely on the fact that we need to reduce the number of embryos that we transfer. We really are all about seeking the one, the one embryo that's going to make the healthy, single-born baby.

    "And this kind of multiple plethora excess of babies is too much of a good thing. And it's rather a slap in the face of the whole profession, simply because it's going in the wrong direction.

    "And it's unfortunate, because the media pick up on this and seem to go, I think, Arthur Kaplan from UPenn (University of Pennsylvania) said the media tend to go goo-goo gaga over this and, in fact, it's really a bit of a medical disaster."

    "Had she walked into a fertility clinic and said, 'Listen, I've got other children, the oldest seven, the youngest two,' co-anchor Julie Chen asked Tucker, "is there any ethical responsibility on the clinic's part to say, 'I'm not going to treat you,' or, 'You know what? This is not a good idea?" '

    "Suffice to say," Tucker responded, "I've been in this business for 25 years now. And it's pretty much standard practice in all clinics to have some form of psychological evaluation of the patient. Also, their sociological circumstances. And I'm stunned, actually, that a clinic would proceed to treat a patient in this circumstance and then even to get to perhaps the transfer of embryos and ponder the transfer in, I believe, the lady's mid-30s, a 35-year-old -- she should be receiving two embryos, maximum, as a transfer into her uterus to have had eight transferred is somewhat -- is extremely irresponsible."
     
  2. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    I feel sorry for these kids...because others are going to be reluctant to help now.
     
  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Couldn't child services take some of them away? A situation like that would appear criminal.
     
  4. YuTea

    YuTea Member

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    They should go to DC and ask for a bailout...
     
  5. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Contributing Member

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    A little more controversy...maybe:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20090130/sc_livescience/8isenoughthelimitstohumanreproduction

    Eight kids at once. The mind boggles. The mind is also pretty creeped out by the thought of one tiny baby after another coming out of a woman as if she were a mouse.

    It's great those octuplets are here and healthy, but really, humans aren't designed to have litters.

    It's basic energetics. Every individual has only so much energy. Some energy is spent staying alive - that is, finding food and not being somebody else's food - and what's left over can be spent on reproduction. In other words, there are limits to reproduction.

    Of course, the various slices of that reproductive energy pie also vary between males and female of all species. Males don't gestate or lactate so they pass on the most genes by flitting from female to female making as many babies as they can, and then walking away. The female reproductive pie is much more complex. There are costs to pregnancy, lactation for mammals, and then whatever else is needed to bring a kid up to sexual maturity so they can pass on genes as well.

    But there are all sorts of ways, from an evolutionary point of view, for females of a species to distribute that energy and bring up babies successfully. She might have as many babies as she can in one shot, litters that is, and have them as often as possible. For that kind of female, reproduction is an assembly line of cheap production per kid. Or a female might opt for the other end of the scale and make one baby at a time and wait for a very long time to see if that one investment pays off.

    Obviously, humans are on slow side of the baby production continuum. Evolution has selected for this path because there are features of our species that require great investment by mothers. Human infants might have big brains compared to other mammals, but they need to get even bigger once outside the womb. And so human infants are actually born neurologically unfinished. They can't cling, sit up, feed themselves, or run from predators. And so the very nature of what it takes to be an adult human puts constraints on how many children a mother can have at a time.

    Take a look at a naked woman and see for yourself how many babies a woman is designed to care for - two, at most.

    In fact our babies need so much that human fathers, too, have been selected to stop fooling around and to stay at home with one female if they want to see their genes go forward. The evolution of the human family is not about men and women deciding to make a commitment; it's really about the dependency of our children.

    And we are so used to this system that we can't help but stare in awe at twins and scream in shock at octuplets. It doesn't seem right to have that many kids at once because it isn't right in the evolutionary sense. That family will surely have help beyond the mother and father, and they will all probably have a great time, but chances are it will be a very long time before that mother reproduces again.
     
  6. McGradySNKT

    McGradySNKT Contributing Member

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    Yes it is true and she has more kids than what is reported

    The doctors making the decisions to do these implants have to be insane

    The entire hospital is up in arms about it too... everyone is talking about it including people who dont even work directly with patients.
     
  7. The_Yoyo

    The_Yoyo Contributing Member

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    my boss knows this family his son goes to the same school as the the oldest of the 14 kids (his son is about to turn 8) and he has gone over to their place for a birthday party a year or two back. he didnt have the most glowing reviews about the family and has no idea how they are going to make it work.
     
  8. underoverup

    underoverup Member

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    she has more than the 6 kids (14 total) reported by the article?
     
  9. droxford

    droxford Member

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  10. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    I have known single child families whose parents were way over their heads.

    I have known people who had 10+ siblings and appear to be perfectly normal, well adjusted adults.
     
  11. mleahy999

    mleahy999 Member

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    This clown car needs to be shut down. The woman's parents must be pissed. What a zoo.
     
  12. Lady_Di

    Lady_Di Contributing Member

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    I can't really say anything bad about her because my grandma had 12 kids.

    As for that lady with 8 babies at once, that's just crazy. She has 6 kids for a single mother and that is enough. I feel bad that her grandpa has to go back to Iraq.
     
  13. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    How come I get the feeling these kids will soon be wards of the state.
     
  14. underoverup

    underoverup Member

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  15. Surfguy

    Surfguy Contributing Member

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    That is one screwed up mother. What...six kids aren't enough for you? I'm not clear what her agenda is...but something stinks.
     
  16. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    I know it's not really feasible, but the idea of anybody wanting to give birth having to go through the same strenuous process that is involved with adoptions to make sure they are qualified, sometimes appeals to me.
     
  17. Royals Ego

    Royals Ego Member

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    famine incoming.....

    WTB bono to feed us
     
  18. professorjay

    professorjay Contributing Member

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    So she had the first 5 births immediately one after another (the kids are all one year apart). Then to top it off she goes for 2 grand slam home runs in the same day.

    I might be insensitive and reading way too much into it, but it sounds like she might have some psychological problems that should be addressed. Like people who fake illnesses to go to the hospital repeatedly (don't remember the name). Maybe the attention from each birth persuades her to do another.

    And this is not to judge people who have many kids. Large families were more common decades ago, and there's still many today. But in this case, considering the dire financial situation (let's be realistic), the timing, and the fertility procedure, it doesn't add up.
     
  19. Austin70

    Austin70 Contributing Member

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    They can call her Octopussy.
     
    #19 Austin70, Jan 30, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2009
  20. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    It's funny to see all these articles asking experts to speculate on the ethics given a variety of assumptions they can't confirm. They don't know if the 6 kids are her biological kids, nor if the octoplets are IVF babies, nor what sort of support she has, nor what her name is, nor what her psychology is. But, they can speculate.
     

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