Controversy erupts after undocumented immigrant waves Mexican flag at graduation

I'm not sure about she facing racism. Black face that more than others in the United State. She have less of an opportunity because of her circumstances, but she might still have less of a head wind. That, to me, just speak to the racism and much more widespread and often, unconscious bias against Black. Black has more head wind against them of all the minority (except for native) IMO.

But I derail. What she did is what you hope most would do in her circumstances or any circumstances. Do the best you can with what's given. Waving a flag is just waving a damn flag. You don't know why she did it and I would rather assume she was celebrating her parent more than she's showing it to Americans, although as g1184 pictorials demonstrated, she's ain't that welcome by our laws and by a segment of Americans, ever so I can understand her not being a proud "American".

And I agree, nationalism and freedom to express oneself doesn't fit. Waving an American flag is a trivial thing to do, as it is with waving any flag by free minded individuals.

 

But she wasn't on a trip. She's lived here almost her whole life, and wanted to celebrate at her heritage at an important event in her life.

The designation that this important event in her life isn't an okay time to show a symbol of her heritage seems arbitrary.

 

Why do keep saying that her waving the flag is rubbing it in the face of the country, it doesn't make any sense.

I think the message she's trying to convey that if she as a Mexican undocumented student cant overcome obstacles and achieve success in this country, others like her can take on this positive step towards success as well.

it seems like her message is more focused on illegals making a positive change in their life and has little to do whether she supports illegal immigration or not.

 

can overcome*

 

So the 'news item' is angry hateful online comments?

and the reaction to those comments, and the reaction to the reaction to those comments?

with 45% of their poll saying she was fine to do as she did, and only 20% saying it should have been an American flag?

Lets hope the SanDiego Tribune doesn't read the GARM after a loss, or the comments to essentially any Yahoo sports piece lest they be overwhelmed by the daily erupting controversies.

 

Her parents bringing her here illegally and keeping her here illegally isn't mere circumstance.

Upholding the law is definitely born out of racism and jealousy, very good call. You actually went "illegal" human on me. LOL

 

She is in fact breaking the law. There's no ambiguity in that. Her story is no more sad than hundreds of millions of other kids in countries around the world that don't have the benefit of geography. Why is she more deserving than them?

You're basically supporting the notion that tens of millions of people can sneak their kids into this country and if they can get away with it long enough then hey this is the only country they know so it's no big deal. Well yes, it is a big deal. And yes, American businesses are complicit in luring and shielding illegal labor in this country and that is wrong as well. It's a freaking mess.

None of these posts have a compelling argument for why this is the only country in the world where borders and laws don't matter.

 

Well, you kind of are judging her and not her parents right? And yes, the difference between you being a legal citizen and her being an illegal immigrant is pure circumstance in the context of what was in here sphere of control.

 

I'd still hit it.

 

She's had 4 years to become a citizen. Why hasn't she done it yet?

 

They gave their daughter a chance for a better life then they could've imagined for themselves in Mexico.

That's something 1st-2nd gen immigrant class families should understand or try to recognize.

It's much easier to claim legitimacy and legality if your parents came through legal means, which implies adequate resources or education. Unless you had to consider questions of legality with you or your family, you're on the privileged side of the genetic lottery. At least in this particular case .

Even with immigration reform, we'd still pay tens of billions enforcing our borders, so our borders do matter. We'll still send back undocumented illegals every year. Sneaking in here and making a living is no easy thing. That's just the situation we live in.

Those who are open to amnesty like the ideal of a nation founded by immigrants and its strength as a result from diverse people integrating over time.

It's an ongoing experiment, and I can totally understand the counterpoint that our nation is founded under the rule of law. It's just that the spirit of these immigration laws have not been consistent over our history, and doubts over legality or documentation didn't come into play in the success stories of those past immigrants.

 

Yes because Sudanese and Syrians aren't trying to get into Europe nor Rohingya trying to get into Thailand. People are on the move all over the World.

Anyway this benefit of geography argument ignores that at some point you benefited geographically from being here in the US. How is that fair to someone born in the Congo?

And yet you focus your anger on her. Her family came here because they wanted to work and make a better life for themselves. In your mind that is a horrible crime that you condemn yet give scant mention to the fact that businesses are willing to hire them. On top of that you probably benefit from the labor that many of these illegals provide. Everything from the produce you eat to the house you live in very likely had illegals involved in the production.

And again when laws are out of touch with reality or to the point of practically being unenforceable that is a problem. That is why Prohibition ended and why mar1juana has been legalized or decriminalized in several states.

Anyway if you're so hell bent on that these people are law breakers no matter how long ago the crime was committed or how much good they have done there's a lot more people you should condemn. Barack Obama has confessed to smoking maryjane when he was in College. This was in the 1970's when mar1juana laws were stricter than now and in NY where recreational mar1juana is still illegal. Under your argument Obama is as much a criminal as Esparza is.

 

By the same logic, the differences between those born poor and rich, healthy and sickly, etc. are also pure circumstance but that doesn't entitle you to claim the Vanderbilt fortune as your own. You've drawn an arbitrary line in which circumstance is valid and which isn't.

 

What law did she break? Two year olds can't break ANY law dude.

 

Our laws already support the notion that tens of million of people can sneak their unborn kids into this country and if they can get away with it long enough then hey this is the country they were born in so it's no big deal.

That's a much greater incentive for illegal immigration. And unless you repeal the 14th Amendment, the natural course of actions is extend that and override the current existing immigration laws that I think everyone agree, is a mess.

We all can value family, hard work, compassion and great immigration can all be part of what made this a great country and continue to make this a great country.

What we have is breaking up family, ignoring hard work and no compassion due to our immigration laws. As MLK said, there are laws and there are unjust laws.

 

^ The laws in this country don't say anything specific like what you're saying, man. The people who take advantage of that situation and the inability of the border patrol to stop them do.

Many of you don't understand the immigration laws or how long someone has to wait for a visa, or what law protects some people ("unborn"?) and some it doesn't.

*Personal Opinion:

Spoiler

I wouldn't have called attention to myself like that (I would on this forum, MAYBE; see signature).

She broke no rule on stage, but she shouldn't have done that because it's just not kosher.

I'm reminded of all the people who decorate their graduation caps...

Are these any different? See the bottom row? That's cool to many of us. Just leave it at that. She went the extra mile and shouldn't have.

 

That's a horrible comparison as nothing entitles her to success. Just because she is in America she still has had to work hard for her success. If anything this is the opposite of a birth right to success since Esparza and her family have probably had to work much harder than many Americans to get where they got. First risking a dangerous crossing, then working long hours for low pay, overcoming language and cultural difficulties, and for her studying hard in school.

If you're going to talk about "arbitrary lines" national borders are some of the most arbitrary lines. That is one of the reason why even to this day there are so many battles over borders.

 

If you are referring to what I wrote...

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."

The intention of the above might be for other reasons, but nevertheless, it is clear what it is.

 

I gotcha, txtony. I hear what you're saying.

I am saying that any pregnant person who makes it through the border onto the United States of America, whether legal or not, cannot be stopped from giving birth to her child in the country.

That child is legally a citizen and nowhere in the laws is the "notion" made that it's OK to allow that. It is illogical and albeit inhumane to prevent pregnant people from coming into the country. Are they themselves ILLEGALLY here? I don't know. You don't know. If the kid is born here, so be it, man. We can talk about the mom in a separate discussion but it's no crime and unless there is a law that harsh, she's OK to give birth here to the baby. You know?

That "notion that supports" sentence... and that it's a law... when it's not... it's COMMON SENSE and LOGICAL that it happens that way. This is in ANY country, not just the U.S.A. Almost all countries will have citizenship laws of anyone born in their land but Mexico allows dual citizenship, too.

 

Because then it would be harder to rub it in the face of Americans which she has been trying so hard to do.