I believe there is a little prejudice againist any religion. I do not believe in the Catholic Church simply for the fact that the majority of their teaching and foundation is not scripture based.
I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but I don't understand your point. As a matter of fact, Priests not being married is one of the better things about the Catholic Church. Its allows 100% dedication to the Church and the members of that Priest's particular Parrish and further, I just have a hard time with preachers using their congregation's donations to support their family. I think for pratical purposes, a minister having a family is a conflict of interest when his or her pay comes directly from their church. Furthermore, why does a man have to have a family to lead a church?
I don't think Catholics believe you can pray to Saints. They do believe you can ask saints or anyone else to pray for you, alive or dead, and that's what they are doing. Personally, I like all the ceremony of the CC. Rituals are important, but only when they are understood. People find them strange becasue they are ignorant about what is going on, like everything else. I also personally don't like churches that have a theater/entertainment aspect to them. Nowadays serenity and quiet contemplation/meditation is out, and being entertained is in. As far a repeating memorized prayers are concerned, chanting can be an effective form of meditation. I'm surprised nobody brought up issues with communion or the infallibility of the the Pope... I hear those a lot too.
To those who disagreed with me, there are those who believe in God and those who don't I am in the group who believes in God, I just don't believe in YOUR God. Those who believe as I do, in a God of love and inclusion - not anger, fear, and exclusion - are given no respect by those of you who cling to rituals of people long since dead. You demand that your God and your beliefs be respected, but you have no respect for those who differ in their vision of God. God help us all if God really is this pathetic, angry, needy creature who demands worship, doles out guilt, and judges all humankind evil based upon an ancient sin of one man and one woman. I reject your God and you find that offensive. You reject mine. Is that offensive? How are they different?
I don't know if you're aimed at me or not.... my point was merely that you and I (or anyone else) can disagree on the nature or essence of God...we can do that 2 ways...civilly...or like jackasses. i'm not personally offended by your rejection of my view of God...but when you start calling someone's faith a pile of manure, i'd say that's arguing like a jackass. now you can fire back and say, "well, there's no rules here...or freedom of speech..." or whatever...and i can't stop you at all. but it doesn't make it any less jackass.
but if they think my beliefs are a pile of manure I DON'T CARE I was speaking of their RITUALS. I'm sorry, but I can't dance around like so many do, mouthing pleasantries. Jesus DETESTED the kind of church the Catholic Church is. Every Gospel details his antipathy for the ritual over substance, for the priests and their rituals, for the departure of his faith from the guideposts he felt were appropriate. I'm not going to pull punches with Muslims, or Baptists, or Catholics. I reject all rituals. I reject all notions of original sins. I reject the God the Christianity believes in because I don't think that is the God Jesus spoke of. Jesus wouldn't recognize many churches that bears his name, but the Catholic Church would probably be the one farthest from his intent. That's my opinion, and it's based upon my study of history, not any theological conclusion. I think Catholics are going to heaven in spite of what they do, not because of it. Likewise for Baptists, Pentecostals, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and atheists.
FF -- i don't disagree entirely with some of your points. i find a lot of catholicism baffling when juxtaposed with the Book of Hebrews, in particular. but i think that can be said in a different way. but, whatever. you've chosen your own religion, whether you think you have or not. just as you signature implies...of course you think it's right...you chose it! to assume that you stand above all the world's faiths and can pick and choose truth from them all is, to me, as arrogant or more arrogant than any thing i've seen from the church, be it Catholic or Protestant.
maxman, I recognize that I created my God, too. but he's just as good as any, maybe better. I believe that religion is based primarily in the near death experience, which would naturally lead to ancestor worship, which of course was the first religion - tens of thousands of years before Adam and Eve would spring forth in history or myth.
I believe in a loving and inclusive God, not a hateful one that you describe. You have no idea who I do (most people) and don't (you) respect. And the reason I now have no respect for you is your assinine posts, not your non-Catholic beliefs.
I don't know. Ask the holy spirit. He's the one who said it, not me. Anyways. I disagree. IMHO I think that a married person has good experience to bring to the church family. Also, in most churches, a husband and wife are almost a tag team for the church. A strong man tends to have a strong woman behind him...keeping him in line, making sure that he does the right thing. In my Church, when we choose elders, we choose the family, not just the man.
Saying the Rosary isn't considered praying to Catholics? The "Hail Mary" isn't a prayer ? The infallibility of the pope is another issue: "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23 "As it is written. There is none righteous, no not one." Romans 3:10 Also the part about priests not marrying does have a biblical basis. Paul the apostle stated that it is better if someone doesn't marry --- but if he can't control his desires he should get married.
Super, That's interesting. I can see how the husband/wife become a tagteam, but does that extend to children in your church? Can single men or women also lead, or is there a declaration that it must be a family? And for double emphasis, "A strong man tends to have a strong woman behind him...keeping him in line, making sure that he does the right thing." Ain't that the truth!
Roth, Prayers not directed to God are intercessory. They are asking others to pray with us on our behalf. There is no deification of Mary or any saints.
absolutely let's go back to the story it allegedly commemorates the last and most deadly plague, the one which would finally cause Pharaoh to let Moses' people go. God would send the angel of death who would kill all the first born sons EXCEPT those who smeared the blood of a lamb over their door It celebrates the alleged slaughter by God of the first born males of the enemy. Does it mean more than that to Jews now? Of course. Do I think such rituals are good for society? NO. Not Easter services and passion plays. Not inflicting pain on oneself, or handling snakes, or speaking in tongues. Not vows of silence or vows of celibacy or repeating the same damn prayers over and over and over. Rituals are inherently tribal, and tribalism is the enemy of empathy. It is THE cause of war. War exists to protect and project ritual, and those who can't let it go.
He also stated that the leaders of the church SHOULD be married. Timothy 1, Chapter 3 1Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an Bishop (overseer),[1] he desires a noble task. 2Now the Bishop must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap. 8Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. 11In the same way, their wives[2] are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything. 12A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well. Perhaps it is OK for Priests to not be married. But Catholics raise the leadership (bishops and overseers, as Paul writes) from unmarried Priests. Perhaps there is seperation, perhaps not. I do know that Deacons are married...but the Church leadership should be too.
remember I think you're all going to heaven except for maybe trader john, so how mad can you get at me and my God?
The difference they claim is that you are not petitioning Mary, but rather askeing her to pray with and for you to God. The infallibility of the pope is not a cliam that he does not sin. It is more like the spirit of the church itself is infallibile, even though the church screws up. I really don't understand it completely...
1st Corinthians has a whole passage on marriage. Basically Paul is saying if you can't handle not being married then get married, but it is better if you don't. I think the passage about Elder's and Deacons is basically saying that if you have a family you better be able to control them before you think you can control a church -- not that you have to be married. I do not agree with the forced celibacy thing --- but I think an unmarried man can serve as a church leader If Paul were alive today you wouldn't let him be an elder in your church? He was certainly a leader in the early church - shouldn't that be our model?
