Conservative Libertarian Mancow tries to prove Waterboarding isn't torture...

Tired of hearing about waterboarding. It really is a non-issue.

It already happened and we cannot change that. There are people who say it is torture and those who say it isn't. Those who say it is torture can take comfort in the fact that Obama is against it. So, what are we arguing about here?

 

Whether it is torture or not is irrelevant (it is). The issue is that waterboarding (along with a lot of the torture techniques used) is illegal under international law and the fact that the United States under Bush could basically do as they please is more upsetting.

 

This only matters if the rest of the world don't already think the US basically does as its pleases. It's not as if this type of image only came about during the Bush administration.

 

I will charitably guess that your poor reading comprehension skills are either due to poor education or your blind obedience to your perceived agenda...most likely the latter.

Let me break it down to you in "See spot run." sentences;

My post had nothing to do with the debate on the legality of torture.
It had everything to due with trying non US citizens under US Citizens due process.

 

...which applies regardless of their citizenship.

Reminder: It helps when you talk down to people to actually know what you are talking about, such as I am doing at present.

Seeing some of the non-lawyers on this board publicly display ignorance of the law makes me feel confident in the utility fo being informed as to such.

 

Right or wrong, it gets tiresome when people refuse to read the point of the subject and automatically run off on their own tangent, sticking words in their mouth which was never said. This seems to be a common theme in politics, on both sides.

A military tribunal and a typical criminal proceeding of a US citizen are quite different. Yes, they both deserve a fair trial, but they are each operated very differently.

 

I have additional news for you. Aside from being wrong, your point is irrelevant - torture isn't illegal just because of due process, it's illegal because doing it is in violation of the law of the United States of America.

 

But, but... Sam water boarding isn't torture it's an enhanced interrogation technique so it isn't breaking the law.

Someone please explain to me how water boarding is torture when Mancow can last 6 seconds surrounded by friends, co-workers, and an EMT team ?

 

What kind of "lawyer" are you anyway, Sam?

Seems to me you're just sit at your computer all day reading articles and blogs and then attempt to proclaim your superiority over everyone on message boards to feed your ridiculous ego. So what kind of "law" work are you doing?

 

When you inevitably lose on message, go after the messenger. Never fails with you guys.

 

Where did I lose on message? Don't group me with anyone if you don't know my views.

 

I focus mostly on corporate governance, fiduciary duties & Delaware corporation law issues these days. You?

 

I'm a franchisee for a multi unit cafe, and right now I'm starting up the distribution in the US of Ayurvedic medicines and consumer products produced by Swami Ramdev's PYP project in Haridwar.

 

Here:

As has been pointed out, it's not just the torture -- which was illegal and should be prosecuted.

It's also significant that the torture was used in order to try to come up with a justification for the Iraq war by trying to force a connection between 9/11 and Iraq that never existed -- a lie for which over 4,000 Americans and countless Iraqi civilians lost their lives.

Beyond that, torture has repeatedly and indisputably led to bad intel. It is necessary to set the record straight on that so that we can move forward with the understanding that the intel was indeed bad. Do you have any idea how many Americans still suffer under the Cheney-concocted lie that Saddam was responsible for 9/11?

We need to learn from the mistakes of history so we don't repeat them.

Vietnam "already happened and we cannot change that" either. So did Watergate. So did Katrina. And, while we're talking shelf life, Jesus died a long time ago too so I'll thank you for getting over that old news and never bringing it up again (thanks to B. Hicks for that one).

Unless upholding the Constitution and keeping America safe aren't important to you, the torture issue has huge implications in any number of areas including but not limited to abuse of power, illegal actions by the executive branch, our standing in the world and stopping the bleeding on this very successful terrorist recruitment tool.

You lost like crazy on message.

 

You should probably send Obama your resume. I hear he's looking for a new Supreme Court Justice.

 

Sweet gig.

link

 

It is a sweet gig, thank you. Me and my family are very blessed to be given the opportunity to be very close to Swami Ramdev and his efforts to improve the lives of people worldwide.

Those are similar products to what we will be distributing, but they aren't the actual products produced by his foundation.

 

I didn't articulate my point very well. What I meant by it happened is exactly what you are saying in that we should learn from our mistakes. America has made mistakes before, but the greatest thing about this country is that we are always seeking to be better and do things the right way going in the future.

I just don't see what arguing about whether it is torture or not is really achieving. It's fairly obvious we went into a war for the wrong reasons but at this point we cannot go back. We can only move forward and we have a President that does not support it so we can be happy with that.

 

The point of arguing over it is that if it's torture it's illegal and if it isn't then it's legal.

It's important partly so we can understand if it will happen going forward (during and post-Obama), so that the world can understand what this nation stands for, so that everyone can understand how the Iraq war really happened (there is not consensus on this) and, hopefully, so that the ones who broke the law, tarnished America's values, violated the Constitution and made America less safe can be brought to justice.

As long as some believe waterboarding is torture and some don't (as you said in your first post here), the legal issue is unclear. We need clarity on this precisely so we can move forward.

The remarkable thing about this thread is that one of the loudest voices that used to claim waterboarding wasn't torture now says it definitely is.

It is incredible in the face of that that there are still people here saying they just don't care.

 

Such is the human stain -- probably about the same % would answer in a similar way at any point in human history.