I think I have said many times that that a more aggressive policy in public schools and universities would help. Not only help the people who go this far into the crazy but others as well. I feel the fact that VTech, Columbine, and this guy were all young kids with obvious mental health problems is more of a poor reflection on our education system than our gun laws.
QOTD, by Nick Gillespie: "blaming Sarah Palin for this atrocity is like blaming JD Salinger for Mark David Chapman's murder of John Lennon."
Don't really know where to put this. It is not really debate material but it is specifically on topic with this story. With that said I guess I will post it here given the subject matter will probably go off topic in Hangout and get this post moved down here regardless. It is about a man who is passing his well wishes onto the Giffords as he was once in the same situation as Mrs. Gifford and made an astounding recovery from 4 gunshot wounds to the head. The story gives a little hope at the type of recovery that can be possible for the congresswoman. Link to story: http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/health/110110-brain-injury-survivor-recovery-possible <object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" id="video" width="320" height="280" data="http://www.myfoxhouston.com/video/videoplayer.swf?dppversion=6994"><param value="http://www.myfoxhouston.com/video/videoplayer.swf?dppversion=6994" name="movie"/><param value="&skin=MP1ExternalAll-MFL.swf&embed=true&adSizeArray=300x240&adSrc=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%2Fadx%2Ftsg%2Ekriv%2Fhealth%2Fdetail%3Bdcmt%3Dtext%2Fxml%3Bpos%3D%3Btile%3D2%3Bfname%3D110110%2Dbrain%2Dinjury%2Dsurvivor%2Drecovery%2Dpossible%3Bloc%3Dsite%3Bsz%3D320x240%3Bord%3D152864357129697920%3Frand%3D0%2E8064740929665775&flv=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emyfoxhouston%2Ecom%2Ffeeds%2FoutboundFeed%3FobfType%3DVIDEO%5FPLAYER%5FSMIL%5FFEED%26componentId%3D134112001&img=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia2%2Emyfoxhouston%2Ecom%2F%2Fphoto%2F2011%2F01%2F10%2F110110headshot9pm%5Ftmb0003%5F20110110211954%5F640%5F480%2EJPG&story=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emyfoxhouston%2Ecom%2Fdpp%2Fhealth%2F110110%2Dbrain%2Dinjury%2Dsurvivor%2Drecovery%2Dpossible&category=health&title=110110headshot9pm&oacct=foximfoximkriv,foximglobal&ovns=foxinteractivemedia&headline=Brain%20Injury%20Survivor%3A%20Recovery%20Possible" name="FlashVars"/><param value="all" name="allowNetworking"/><param value="always" name="allowScriptAccess"/></object><p style="width:320px"><a href="http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/health/110110-brain-injury-survivor-recovery-possible">Brain Injury Survivor: Recovery Possible: MyFoxHOUSTON.com</a></p>
I love the part in catcher in the rye where Holden caulfield draws crosshairs on John Lennon. Palin is not guilty of manslaughter. She was COMPLETELY irresponsible in marking her opponents like that. If Obama did that you'd be wetting yourself right now.
So why would you make politics out of this? Why not just admit that any politician regardless of which side of the political spectrum they are on that literally advocates guns as a solution to political problems should be shunned, alienated, and isolated? You seem unwilling to do that and instead try and dig up things that make your political opponents look like they are guilty of the same thing. Why are you making this into something with political sides, when reasonable people on both sides should be able to agree that extremist talk like that should have no place in politics?
I'm staying out of this thread because, as was said by another poster, this is an American tragedy, not one to be blamed on Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, or any other political party. That being said, this post cause me to read the following... "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to FranchiseBlade again."
If Obama did that, he'd get a pass just as he did for the irresponsible hand-to hand combat comments. . .I understand what you are saying though,.. Palin is COMPLETELY free from blame and certain liberals or liberal media is COMPLETELY faulty and idiotic to try to make the connection or lest even bring it up. . .
good lord but the political stuff is predictable. I had a split second of hope that America would do a tiny bit of healing after this. I think FranchiseBlade put it best along those lines, but the politics-as-sports-team mentality will never leave some people. (Along those lines, how can some people scream for Kubiak's job but be okay with any of today's political leaders for their "team"?) Any update on the Congresswoman's condition? I think those that are hoping to see her retake her seat in the house are in for a disappointment. I think the optimism is for her to live but I would sadly expect some significant loss of brain function.
You're right that Palin is free from blame, but that doesn't change the fact that her gun-inspired rhetoric (and that of others) is just plain wrong and needs to stop. I think of it like this: you know how sometimes when you get really angry at someone you care about you might say you hate them and wish bad things to happen to them? Then if something actually happens, you feel terrible and it makes you re-evaluate the type of expressions you use when things get heated. If you tell your best friend that you can't stand him and you want him to drop dead, it's not your fault if he gets run over by a car a week later, but it sure as hell should make you think twice before you say something like that again.
I guess there is misunderstanding on both sides then, because I didn't say anything that I thought would make people choose sides. I honestly thought that everyone would agree that extremist talk about violent solutions to political problems was deplorable. I really thought most people who aren't 100% trolls would be able to agree with that.
I agree with you that there was probably no connection to what Palin did and the shooting of Giffords. However, that doesn't make Palin's poster the best thing for the tone of rhetoric in politics. The Friday before she was shot Giffords sent out an email containing this. Earlier Giffords had specifically mentioned Sarah Palin's ad as something that was harmful to the political discourse For the record I don't think that poster by Palin was the even close to the worst of the rhetoric going on in politics, but I also agree with Giffords, the victim of the shooting, that it isn't helpful, and could have been toned down. You are free to disagree, but it's worth noting that the victim of the horrible shooting stands in contrast to you.
i am not making politics out of this, rather, i'm demonstrating how you are doing precisely that which you project on your critics by insisting there's some palin/tea party connection, and that right wing rhetoric is somehow so much worse than left wing. it's the same scurrilous tactic used by the deplorable paul krugmann. it is you, and your fellow travelers, who have turned this tragedy into a hate-fest. btw, it's worth noting that the only federal official who died was a conservative republican judge, appointed by GHW Bush- i don't see a lot of sympathy for him, or his family, in this thread.
I just read that and from it I think there is good evidence that Loughner wasn't influenced at all by Right wing rhetoric. From the article: [rquoter]Tierney tells Mother Jones in an exclusive interview that Loughner held a years-long grudge against Giffords and had repeatedly derided her as a "fake." Loughner's animus toward Giffords intensified after he attended one of her campaign events and she did not, in his view, sufficiently answer a question he had posed, Tierney says. ... Giffords was the target of Loughner's rampage, prosecutors say, and the sworn affidavit accompanying the charges mentions that Loughner attended a Giffords "Congress in Your Corner" event in 2007. The affidavit also mentions that police searching a safe in Loughner's home found a letter from Giffords' office thanking the alleged shooter for attending an August 25, 2007 event.* Tierney, who's also 22, recalls Loughner complaining about a Giffords event he attended during that period. He's unsure whether it was the same one mentioned in the charges—Loughner "might have gone to some other rallies," he says—but Tierney notes it was a significant moment for Loughner: "He told me that she opened up the floor for questions and he asked a question. The question was, 'What is government if words have no meaning?'" Giffords' answer, whatever it was, didn't satisfy Loughner. "He said, 'Can you believe it, they wouldn't answer my question,' and I told him, 'Dude, no one's going to answer that,'" Tierney recalls. "Ever since that, he thought she was fake, he had something against her." Tierney says he has "no clue" why Loughner might have "shot all those other people." But, he notes, "when I heard Gabrielle Giffords has been shot, I was like 'Oh my God...' For some reason I felt like I knew...I felt like if anyone was going to shoot her, it would be Jared." Loughner would occasionally mention Giffords, according to Tierney: "It wasn't a day-in, day-out thing, but maybe once in a while, if Giffords did something that was ridiculous or passed some stupid law or did something stupid, he related that to people. But the thing I remember most is just that question. I don't remember him stalking her or anything." Tierney notes that Loughner did not display any specific political or ideological bent: "It wasn't like he was in a certain party or went to rallies...It's not like he'd go on political rants." But Loughner did, according to Tierney, believe that government is "****ing us over." He never heard Loughner vent about the perils of "currency," as Loughner did on one YouTube video he created.[/rquoter] From reading that it sounds like that it almost could've been any politician and it just happened that Loughner lived in the same district of a Democrat Representative who had been threatened before over political beliefs. None of this lessens the horrible tragedy of this situation but it does appear that Loughner was a random nut case and it was a matter of bad luck that Giffords became his target.
From Coffee party founder Annabel Park... Dear Fellow Americans, This is a heartbreaking moment in American history. Although we do not know the details of the shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and 20 others in Tucson, we do know that we are living through an era in which horrific acts of violence directed at politicians seem inevitable. It's heartbreaking in part because we're not shocked. We're not shocked because violent language, vitriol and intolerance have become normal, useful and profitable in our culture. It is deliberately used in political campaign activities and packaged into entertainment by the media. The world that we are co-creating right now as citizens, members of the media and politicians is a world at perpetual war. It is a world in which American people are not only at war with people outside the country, but with people inside the country. We believe this constant strife is weakening our nation. At some point, as American citizens, we have to say: enough is enough with the violent rhetoric and the politics of division. As Abraham Lincoln said to a divided nation in 1861: We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. To politicians and the media, we'd like to say: stop pushing our buttons and behave responsibly. Stop inducing conflict among the American people to advance your political or profit-driven agenda. We, the undersigned, accept our civic duty to end this era of violent rhetoric and the politics of division. It is our responsibility - as citizens, politicians and the members of the media - to encourage civil and informed political engagement. We recognize that civility, tolerance and understanding are values that form the foundation of a stable, prosperous, and democratic society. Thank you, To sign the petition, click here . To sign our civility pledge, click here : http://www.coffeepartyusa.com/petition-violent-rhetoric Note that at no point is one side or another singled out, both sides are at fault here and everyone needs to take it down a notch for America.
i dont know about yall, but the cover of my copy of catcher in the rye has a pic of lennon in cross-hairs.
if you are unable to read franchise blade's posts without making **** up about them, please do us all a favor and shut the **** up, you senile old windbag.
