I am late to the party, but just thought I would share my opinion on this topic... IMO, I would slightly disagree with the Congressman on this bias being exclusively anti-Christian. I think it's more of a trend of intolerance that is sadly becoming more common in our society today. Is there some anti-religion bias (not just Christianity) among many Americans? I think so, yes, and for the most part the Left are accused of perpetrating this bias. On the other hand, is there a bias against secularists and followers of non-Christian religious traditions? Certainly, yes, and the Right are usually blamed for this bias. So basically, I think all sides are culprits in fostering intolerance that threatens our society from the top down. I think there is some legitimacy to the finger-pointing that is going on, because, frankly, both sides contribute to this general trend of intolerance in one way or another.
Mewogi -- again, we're misunderstanding one another. i'm not dismissing good things about other faiths. not at all. and you can trust whomever you wish on whatever subject you wish. i am not surprised that a buddhist monk and i would disagree on the nature of Jesus Christ. not surprised at all. nor am i surprised when my Muslim friends disagree with me on the nature of Jesus Christ. no problem. i'm not dismissing anything. you have studied different faiths and arrived at a conclusion. i have studied different faiths and arrived at a different conclusion. that's ok. i see uniquness in Jesus Christ that transcends the typical uniqueness between people. if you don't....well...then you don't. if you see intolerance in my beliefs...or discrimination...well...then you do....and i'm sorry for that. but that's what i believe.
just a joke, you know, you are what you eat. basically, i think if there is an after hours party (heaven), the worthy invitees will include christians, muslims, buddhists, non-believers, et al. kinda like a costume party.
Good questions Max. I’m away from my computer for a couple of days so I’ll have to give you a more thorough response next week, but I have access to a computer now and can give a few quick thoughts now. The fear of the government is a strange phenomenon to many non-Americans from other democratic countries I think. In a democracy the people are the government, right? Frustration and disenchantment is common in Canada and other places but not a fear of the government. We truly believe that if a government does something really offensive we can get rid of them. The former Mulroney government went from being the governing party down to 2 (yes 2) seats after they bungled the Quebec issue in their second term. I guess the fear of the government is an overarching issue, and one that I’m sure affects more issues than just this. Nonetheless, in a democracy the people do ultimately have the power and every individual is responsible for their part in it, even if the only level of involvement they’re called to is to vote in which case their responsibility is to vote and to vote and who they vote for. Wow! That’s a powerful response Max. I think it calls and challenges us all. And this principle applies to more than just wealth. It can apply anything we idolize and put before God, even our own egos. This is one that is particularly relevant to us lefties. There are lots of injustices in the world and we are called to do something about them, to feed and cloth the least of God’s people, but we are called to do it God’s way, not ours. This is going to confuse some people but what I’m saying is that if we get full of ourselves and charge off apart from God and try to “save the world” it will backfire. If a man who is called to earn money to give to aid agencies quits his job to become a frontline worker, even though he has aptitude for it, then the greater good is not being served and his efforts will end in failure. Some will be called to give up all they have and be frontline workers and some will be called to support them in various ways and do other things. We are all given different strengths and called to different things in the body of Christ, and if we’re not listening and are trying to do it our own way then whatever we do will be a failure. If we don’t give up our egos to follow God then we are no different than the wealthy man who didn’t give up his money. We just have different idols.
there's an episode where elaine becomes obsessed with a cartoon in the new yorker, because she doesn't think it means anything...sort of like the emperor's wardrobe. made to look smart...but ultimately means nothing.
Thanks Max! Rhester, I’m often not sure what you’re referring to in many your posts, and I may have this one wrong too, but if so then I’d like to address a possible misinterpretation of a part of one of your posts. But of course Jesus calls us to act. We shouldn’t act apart from his will but he will call us to act and when he does we need to do so. Jesus called his disciples to leave their traditions and occupations and even their families to follow him and to act on his behalf, and much of what they did was to counter the corrupt religious institutions and religious leaders of the day. Large chunks of the NT are dedicated to this. “Be careful,” Jesus said to them. "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them” (Matt 7:15-16). “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees” (Matt 16:6). Matt 23 is one of the most powerful chapters of the NT and Corinthians and parts of Revelations are also directly about the corruptions of churches and church leaders. (Matt 23 - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 23;&version=31;) Criticism as in bashing or passing judgement on any individual is clearly not right, but Jesus, Paul and John all criticized, in an appropriate way, the corruption and apathy of the religious institutions and religious leaders of the day. This is a very important part of the NT and clearly we are called to hold our Churches and leaders accountable today too. Many churches today don’t do this, of course. Historically it was the Catholic Church’s refusal to be self critical or even to hear criticisms that led to the Protestant split, and today similar situations exist. There are Churches that stress compliance with their customs and theology and give lip service at best to deeper questioning and the pursuit of an ever deeper personal relationship with God. Now, as then, they seek to control their people rather than to nurture their people’s spiritual growth. At best this works to create a lukewarm faith, and I’m sure you are familiar with the passage in Revelation about this. “15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth” (Revelation 3:15-16). At worst it leads people away from a personal relationship with God and into a compliant, legalistic conception of Christianity, and this, from a Christian standpoint, is the wide road that leads to death. So I’m sure you agree that it is extremely important that Christians and Churches do give and accept constructive criticism. The refusal to do so can be literally deadly.
So would the Christians here agree with this? I came across this yesterday for some reason... One of the clearest examples of a counterfeit Christian on today's scene, in my opinion, is Mother Teresa. In her book, Life In The Spirit: Reflections, Meditations, and Prayers, she says on pages 81 and 82: "We never try to convert those who receive (aid) to Christianity but in our work we bear witness to the love of God's presence and if Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, or agnostics become for this better men—simply better—we will be satisfied. It matters to the individual what church he belongs to. If that individual thinks and believes that this is the only way to God for her or him, this is the way God comes into their life—his life. If he does not know any other way and if he has no doubt so that he does not need to search then this is his way to salvation." Jesus Christ clearly stated, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME" (Jn. 14:6). http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/motherteresa.htm It seems this whole "NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME" misunderstanding even divides Christians. "When Jesus said, "I am the way," He meant that to have a true relationship with God, you must practice his way. In the Acts of the Apostles, the early Christians always spoke of their faith as "the Way." To me, "I am the way," is a better statement than "I know the way." The way is not an asphalt road. But we must distinguish between the "I" spoken by Jesus and the "I" that people usually think of. The "I" in His statement is life itself, His life, which is the way. If you do not really look at His life, you cannot see the way. If you only satisfy yourself with praising a name, even the name of Jesus, it is not practicing the life of Jesus. We must practice living deeply, loving and acting with charity if we wish to truly honor Jesus." -Thich Nhat Hahn
No I would not agree with that. I will tell you why, but there are plenty of Christians who would disagree with me. I agree with what Jesus said, but through Jesus means through his message which was love over all else. A kind of love that goes beyond self interest or a desire to see people get what we think they deserve. Even those that are our enemies should be loved, and giving to someone who would steal from you even more than he stole. That is the way to the father, that is what Jesus was talking about. Mother Teresa was doing exactly what Jesus talked about. By showing that to others they get to experience what Jesus was talking about. Christianity isn't about what public proclomations people make, it is a matter of the spirit. If on the inside see what Mother Teresa was doing, and realize that she is blessed and following a path that Jesus would approve of, then whether they outwardly acknowledge Christ's influence in their lives, their lives have been affected. Inside their hearts they know the service that was done. If they continue to worship elsewhere and claim another religion that is up to them. Inside where it really matters they either know or are starting to know Jesus' message. It has made a difference where it really counts. I think as Christians the best thing we can do is show love to people in as genuine a way as possible. I think a ton of us have been touched by someone doing something nice or an act of kindness at one time or another. That is the best evangelizing there is. People can ask questions about it, and it is fine to answer them. But to try beat people over the head with talk about stuff usually doesn't make as significant a change on the inside where it counts. They can say they are different, and are new born again Christians if they want to, and it may or may not be genuine. But rarely to extreme examples of self sacrifice for those that are downtrodden fail to make a dent in one's soul. We can be assured that Jesus' message was spread. If it happens to a hindu and the person decides to keep worshipping as a hindu, that is up to them.
I only had a quick look at that site but there is quite a bit there I’m uncomfortable with. Leaving the site aside and addressing your question, however, I think we quickly get into a problem of language. Depending on one’s interpretation of what he’s saying I agree and disagree with different parts of that. I could get into an extended discussion on a number of points there so maybe to narrow it down a bit, which point in particular were you referring to?
Good post. The only parts I would probably disagree with are these: The question I have is, once that spiritual awakening begins to happen, is it incompatible with other religions? When this happened to me and I began to explore what it was about I came to the belief/conviction that it was what was being described in the Bible. I understand from my own and other’s experiences that it’s entirely possible to not know much about the Bible or the details of Jesus life when your spiritual transformation takes place, so in this context it’s clear to me that one could have come to know Jesus internally as you say and yet in their lives be continuing with the traditions of their family and culture. What I suspect, however, is that this won’t feed one’s need for spiritual growth and that eventually one will be drawn to look beyond those traditions to learn more about this spirituality that they discovered internally. This was, in a general way, my personal experience anyway.
"NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME" This is called a stumbling block in the New Testament- 1 Corinthians 1:22-24 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 1 Peter 2:7-9 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; The entire message of the New Testament is a declaration and validation of faith in Jesus Christ being the only means of salvation available to man. Mark 16: 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Acts 4:11-13 “He is 'the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone. 12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." John 3:16-20 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed." Not that every Christian believes that way, but that is the principle testimony of the New Testament. I would not find it hard to believe that other Christians believe Jesus is not the only way to salvation and to escape eternal judgment, but I don't think anyone can show that is the stated message in the New Testament. Especially, since it is primarily written to declare He is the only way- 1 John 5:12-14 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
were you born, raised and educated in the judeo-christian tradition? i certainly was and i live within that tradition, other's do not.
