You said contending teams don't put up embarrassing performances. Losing 20 point leads in the 4th quarter TWICE ...is embarrassing. Put it this way, how do you think the Mavs feel? wait for it.... wait for it... The mavs are being embarassed! Good teams drop a few stinkers every now and then. Quite being so pessimistic. btw, w/out Juwan's shots tonight ...we lose this game.
Well I am not one of them. Not only do I own him, I'm already in his head. He's annoyed with me because I defend the players. He continues to argue that Howard couldn't help us beat the Mavs 2 years ago. He's yet to give me a legit argument. He can't because he's wrong. Anything he says is speculation and flawed guessing. Juwan is the weakest link in the rotation?... weaker than Snyder? NO WAY. I'm not even going to bother responding to what you said about Rafer. Just read my sig.
Rockets losses weren't because they didn't put in effort. Their effort was there. They were thumping Phoenix all game. Phoenix just outperformed them in the last quarters. If this Rockets team had even half-heartedly showed up for even 1 of the games in Utah, I would have never criticized their lack of effort. Their effort in the 2 games were damn worthy of criticism. Again, I don't see the comparison of going down 0-2 in while losing homecourt as that team did and holding homecourt as this team has been doing. You are trying to make it dramatic but it isn't really. You should be thankful this team did not open up by going down 0-2 in Toyota center. We would be looking at a sweep with the pitiful performance they came up with in Utah. Mavs thought they could cruise and now they are paying for it. Lack of effort will cost you. Thanks for making my point! ...and they pay for it. Again, if your goal for this team is to win a fews game and a few series here and there, that wont be a problem. If your goal is to win a championship, it ill come bite you in the @ss. You said it, look at Dallas. If Juan had even remotely chosen to show up for the previous 4 games, we would have wrapped up this series and been waiting for next opponent. I have absolutely no problem praising Rockets players. But they have to earn it. You see Juan stepping it up for the Rockets to win a ring, I don't. If it makes you feel any better, I am hoping I am wrong. 4 horrid performance vs. 1 good .... 4 horrid performance vs. 1 good .... 4 horrid performance vs. 1 good .... 4 horrid performance vs. 1 good .... 4 horrid performance vs. 1 good .... Computing.....
You dont annoy with me at all!! You amuse me! I look forward to your rants... Rockets64 - "Waaaaaaaa.......Zboy called out Juan for shoplifting...waaaaa" Those who seek the Holy Grail may click below.... In it lies words of wisdom. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=2897573&postcount=49 Dude...If you had wiped your @ss with my toilet paper even once, you would not be bringing this up.... I once put in my sig. that I was a sexy beast. It did not come true however. I actually had to work at it...and now here I am!!
Revisionists history. Losing those two games was possibly the most embarassing moment in Rockets history ...hence the term "Choke City." Redefine your argument (after the fact) all you want. Heart or effort ...doesn't matter. You said contenders don't put up embarassing games ...and the championship Rockets got embarrassed TWICE in a row. Redefine it how you want to suit your argument ...but they were embarrassed.
I am not too sure about that. A certain 40 point blowout loss in Game 7 at Dallas sure comes to mind. It was the worst Game 7 loss in LEAGUE HISTORY. Hard to top that one. The difference between this team and the 90s one is that, that team didn't have soft players. The only possible soft player on that team was Smith. On the other hand, Dream, OT, Horry, Casell, Maxwell, Elie, Drexler.....those players weren't afraid to mix it up. Even in 92-93 playoffs, those Rockets went to game 7 and barely lost on Seattle. They did not put up a 40 point margin clunker. You will call it revisionist history. But I didn't have to wait until later to know Dream, OT, Maxwell, Harerra, and Elie were tough sunufabeetches. And here's the kicker. The 05 Rockets team was arguably tougher than what we have now. We are missing "in your face" tough players like Bob Sura, Mike James, and Jon Barry. So yeah, if this team makes me nervous when it comes up with pitiful performances in Game 3 and 4 with so much riding on the line, you cant blame me. Especially after the team set a couple new records in game 3. Again, if the effort was there, I wouldn't even worry about those games. But asking me to be fine and dandy when only 4 players on the team put up anything on the box score is reaaallllllyyyyyy stretching it. It would take couple of six packs and a barrell of Vodka in my system, $ million in ransom, and a gun to my head to convince me that we don't have a serious problem with bench production. Even if I completely chuck out the effort part and go with what you are saying, I dont see how you can compare that team going down 0-2 in a series while losing first 2 home games to this team holding homecourt as it has been. It's not that dramatic really. I will help you out though. If you had brought up the 95 playoffs when they went down 0-2 in 1st round to Suns in Phoenix, that would have made a LOT MORE sense. Those 2 games were possibly the only 2 games where I was pissed off at them for coming out flat, although they had just come off an emotional 5 game series with the Jazz, and Drexler was O'Donelled in one of the games. Bottom line is this... You have confidence in our role players. Given their history, I don't.
Fine. You missed the point. 94' Rox were a championship caliber team (obviously) and they were thouroughly embarrassed after those two loses. Dallas is pretty embarrassed going down 1-3.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree here. My point was about lack of effort and those loses weren't because the effort wasn't there. Not to mention, that team, as I have already said, had a lot more mentally tougher players. They could **afford** to put up some effortless games and still grind it out. Despite that, 2 games in 95 are the only ones I can think of where they came out completely flat during their 2 year championship run. I have already made it quiet clear about Dallas. They came out a little lackadaisical in earlier games and now they are paying for it. They actually might have a chance to pull it out still though, because they have a deep bench that shows up. Rockets bench is highly questionable and JVG sticks to his 8 man rotation. We cant afford half of our players not even showing up for a playoff game, much less 2 games in a row. Our margin of error is significantly smaller. Our bench does not compare with either of those 2 teams you keep mentioning.
I will disagree with you that we lost because of "lack of effort." But since there is no way to prove or disprove it and it is only one opinion vs. another, it not really worth arguing this. I was only disputing your claim that championship teams don't get embarrassed ...because they do all the time. Actually no, they were down 2 games twice plus they were down against the Knicks in the finals. "mentally tough" is another completely loaded point that is entirely unprovable so it isn't worth debating. Conversly, this year our stars are better than Dallas or Miami. Championships are largly carried by their stars. In the NBA, bench play doesn't win championships, stars do. Bench players only compliment the stars. Without legit stars, bench play is irrelevant. So despite you, I remain optimistic because if our stars catch a stride, we'll contend ...despite what you think of our role players. But blah blah blah.
Because of lack of effort? I helped you out on one exmaple. The other one wasn't it though you keep trying at it. As for Finals, again I had absolutely no problem with effort. They were all grind out games and Rockets were pretty much there in every one of them. It really isn't worth debating as to which role players are mentally tougher... Horry, Casell, Maxwell, Elie, Harerra, OT OR Alston, Juwan Howard, Luther, or Battier. So far, the one guy who seems tough is Hayes. Horry, Paxon, Kerr, Armstrong, Laimbeer, Rodman, Harper, Casell, Elie, Harerra, Haslem etc. are speechless. You say "bench play doesnt win championships" but then you say "Bench players compliment stars." How are the bench players supposed to compliment the stars? By sitting on the bench and throwing up 0s on boxscores? Duh! (Although Pistons were an interesting story. No true superstars. Just a bunch of very good players when they first won the championship.) What about with star players. Still irrelevant? Flip-flop-flip-flop... I though you just said bench players compliment stars. As for your stars and role players.... here's my take. Our star players are one of the best, no doubt. But they need help. Our star players cannot single handidly win a series without the bench showing up. They can win a game or 2 here and there but unless the bench shows up, the better *TEAM* wins. I will throw out just one example and I will use the player who a lot of people consider to be best of all time... Jordan did not win in 95 because he had no power-forward to play a role. (Yes folks, Jordan played in 95 playoffs). He had to get a role player who would go and grab the rebounds. That year Jordan and Pippen were there but no role players = no ringgy. On the other end, Hakeem's minions were supporting him. Oh hell..I will throw in another example since its free.... The Lakers won 3 rings when role players like Fisher, Horry, and Fox were stepping up to help Shaq and Kobe. When the same 2 best players in the league did not get the help they needed agains Detroit, Detroit smushed them. I believe that our star players by themselves can take us past the Jazz, although even then it would be too damn close. But once we move past the past round, if the bench doesn't show up, might as well bring out the fishing rods. So if you want to be an optimist then that's fine... But pardon me if I want to be a realist. The most convincing argument you have made yet....
HAHAHA I irritate to the point that you have to resort to posting pictures of crying babies! The fact that you even respond to me proves how much I'm into your head. Juwan Howard owns you. You know you've lost the argument, so you hope adding humor to your posts will at least make people think, "well, while Zboy is a moronic troll, at least he's pretty damn funny!"
Reread my quote ...that's not at all what I said. I said, if your stars don't play like stars THEN your bench is irrelevant. Furthermore, a superstar player can elevate an entire team and make scrubs look good. So even though our bench may not be as strong as Dallas, our stars are better than their stars. Therefore, I hold out hope that the Rockets can still beat the Mavs or Suns. If you'd rather live in ZBoy's miserable life and beleive that the Rockets have no hope of every acheiving any success because of Juwan Howard, then feel free to wallow in his mud pit. Personally, I'd rather remain optimisitc.
I am not miserable at all. I am enjoying these playoffs. I love this time of the year! I have no problem seeing things in a realistic manner. Sure, I could be a hard core homer and claim Rockets are the best team ever. Thats just not my style though. I don't have a problem saying they are a decent to good team but they have major holes that need to be addressed. Like I said, you are free to be optimistic. You cant force optimism down my throat however.
I fully understand we could have a better bench and that certainly would help our cause. That said, if Yao and/or TMac play at an MVP level (which they are not), then that would mask many deficiencies we have. Will that happen? Remains to be seen. Could it happen? Yes. As evidence of my position, Dirk did not play at an MVP level and they are gone ...despite having a strong bench. You need your stars to play like stars. So b**** and moan about Juwan and Rafer all you want but currently the truth remains that our biggest limiting factor is Yao and TMac. I remain optimistic because I feel that TMac can "turn it on" at any point. Plus Yao could still have a breakthrough. If that happens, I like our chances. If that doesn't happen, we're doomed. Juwan and Rafer won't be our downfall ...I certain about that.
Krosfyah, Want to go another round with Juan and Hayes protecting Yao's back? If Rockets had even a decent PF to support Yao, this went series would have been over long ago with Rockets coming on top. Shaq used to cry for a PF early in his career and he is much more athletic.. What makes you think Yao can go without one??? Tell me...what went thru your head when Juan was lining up to brick WIDE OPEN shots in Game 7? What was your reaction when Juan just let Boozer dunk without even attempting to foul or take a charge? 4th quarter...we have the momentum on our side and which 2 folks decide to change all that? Back to back turnover by Rafer and a brick by Juan. We are not going anywhere until we surround Yao and Tmac with pitbulls and hard nosed players. Oh yeah a decent coach wouldn't be bad either. Nice clock management. Perhaps now you can understand why I wasnt too high on this team.
