Gender affirming care is not well thought out nor battle tested. It's frightening to offer life changing sugery/therapy to minors who aren't fully grown nor developed. The whole concept of fluid gender/sexual norms is deeply rooted behind the two commonly held genders. Well why does a woman trapped inside a man's body need to be altered into a man? I guess one mostly does it to fit in, not get harassed at bathrooms/changing stalls, or ridiculed by bigots. But it still doesn't solve the question whether that change is a perfect or right fit. So I don't think these surgeries are vital or a right for minors and the way they're pushed is like how people treated depression with magic pills that in all likelihood doesn't tackle the core issue while altering a different part of your mind. So now some push GAC for minors so they can be who they are thought to be, but kids change and go through phases. Some are tomboys until they become enamored with fashion. Or maybe they don't and stay as tomboys. Some are god lovin daddy's little girls until they discover alcohol and ways to avoid getting pregnant. I believe JK Rowling tried making this point before it was emotionally hijacked by sensationalists. Bottom line is these surgeries are permanent, might not be what was sold, and could even leave those same troubled teens even more messed up in its wake. So then the question is whether "letting" a trans male fully grow into 6'4 statuesque man before signing on the transition to a woman when there was "a window" to offset that. Yes, because the person should be allowed to grow naturally before making that informed decision with a fully grown brain. The whole concern is rooted in vanity and it's more a societal sin than a personal one. All we care about is looks when these people are screaming to be paid attention of what's inside, We think mostly in square and circle pegs. Can't begin to comprehend triangle or star shaped pegs, but that doesn't stop us from ramming them through either hole. P.S. I don't think it's a parent's rights issue. They still have something called agency and influence over themselves and their kid's decisions.
I think there's a lot of misunderstanding here, and I respect you as a poster, but I think you have a lot of that misinformation. I learned a lot of this as a good friends daughter now identifies as a boy and he talked to me a lot about the process. She was 12 at the time. First of all, they don't let minors have surgery. And it's not easy to get any kind of hormone therapy. They have to go through a lot of counseling first. To describe the place where she was at - extremely depressed, suicidal, and unhappy. This was driven entirely by her, not her father or mother. It was driven by the fact the the child was filled with incredible anxiety and fear about going through puberty. They eventually allowed her to begin using the hormone blockers to delay puberty - a lot of is buying time so that someone can be sure its right for them, and they proceed with a great deal of caution. But his now son is much happier. They do better in school, and more engaged at school and at home, have less behavior issues, and are no longer suicidal. It's easy to just stand on the outside and judge things we don't understand. Or buy into what one side is saying and presenting as the truth when it's far from it.
I just want to thank you for sharing this. Over and over, I’m blown away by people thinking gender reassignment is decided upon (by the parents and the child) in a cavalier way and that gender dysphoria is something as banal and fickle as fashion preferences or favorite bands. My respect for several posters here has been rather tarnished by their demonstrating such ignorance, and it’s really refreshing to see someone push back.
You are right. People act like parents just go out and get hormones or get surgery before a child even reaches puberty, when that simply isn't true. If recommended guidelines are followed by all the psychiatrists and medical agencies, then healthcare should not be denied.Those who say that need to read the article below to educate themselves. The truth is that data from more than a dozen studies of more than 30,000 transgender and gender-diverse young people consistently show that access to gender-affirming care is associated with better mental health outcomes—and that lack of access to such care is associated with higher rates of suicidality, depression and self-harming behavior. Major medical organizations, including the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, the Endocrine Society, the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association, have published policy statements and guidelines on how to provide age-appropriate gender-affirming care. All of those medical societies find such care to be evidence-based and medically necessary. https://www.scientificamerican.com/...rming-care-for-transgender-kids-really-shows/ It's simply ignorant and wrong to condemn something you can't possibly understand without being in the shoes of these parents and kids. To deny them care is wrong! It's dangerous, and certainly not saving those kids from harm. In fact, it's doing the opposite. I suggest you read this article @AroundTheWorld. Your heart may be in the right place but the studies from all the major medical agencies tell a different story.
Yeah I think a lot of the posters here don't realize this is a life or death situation as many of those kids - if forced to go through puberty, commit suicide at a harrowing rate like 30% - 50%. Literally a life or death situation, not a fashion choice.
I’ve been very clear that trans people should be treated with respect and understanding. That rather than shielding children from the existence of trans and LGBT we should be preparing them to deal with a diverse society. I will though agree that hormone replacement therapy and other gender transitioning needs to be treated very carefully for young children. Puberty and human development is very complicated and altering it or tampering with it is something that should be very reserved. I wouldn’t ban it but I do think it should be rare and not undertaking without a lot of counseling.
What parents WANT their children to be so different that they wanted drugs or even surgery? Zero. It is 99.99% more likely that a parent stops their kid from seeking the care their kid wants than a parent pushing for the care their kid did not ask for. This should be a family decision with the advice of their doctors. The gov should stay the hell out of a very difficult decision by the family. The party of ‘get the gov out of the doctor and patient relationship’ intuitively understands this. Heck everyone does. But they can't cause... Politicking on this topic is easy calculation - transgender is a tiny minority and they are very much outside of gender norm, social norm, and cultural norm. The return on investment for politicians is high. Harming this tiny minority is a-ok for political gain. Bad bad politicians. How do this impact society and transgender? Zero for society except they are distracted by something that has almost zero impact on them. [Yes, I have heard about the concern of LGBT behavior spreading (perhaps believing it's a choice). No, it doesn't spread. What has indeed spread (until recently perhaps) is more understanding toward the LGBT individuals.] The trans community, one that already has a very high suicidal rate, will be harmed. I think we all know what's the right thing to do here - let the family decide for themselves with advice from their doctors. Gov mandating policies, investigating and prosecuting parents for child abuse just because they have a transgender kid that desires some medical intervention that can't happen without approval from their doctors is wrong.
Remember that until recently, people didn't think people were actually gay, but were pretending or were programmed to be. There's been a lot more acceptance of being gay, but we're now seeing some backlash against even gay men come back with the way they are being stigmatized with the whole monkeypox thing.
I think the framing of the problem is creating division. There is a lot of skepticism over the idea of gender fluidity and the idea that sex/gender is not binary. The term “gender-affirming care” is met with hostility because it affirms these ideas as scientifically valid, when in fact there is a lot we don’t understand about the science behind gender. There are things that the vast majority of people can agree on, though. Some children do have an exceptionally difficult time with their bodies, their sexuality, and how they fit into their social group as a boy or girl. We know that the onset of puberty can exacerbate these problems and put them at extremely high risk for self-harm and suicide. What is effective treatment for these kids and their mental/physical well-being? We should be able to talk about these things without taking a position one way or the other on culture-war topics like what it means to be a man or a woman.
Absolutely agree with this. Also trans people are still a very very small part of the population. Just being a tomboy or an effeminate man isn’t being trans and even most tomboys or boys who cross dress aren’t going to undergo gender transition.
Exactly. That in itself is abuse of authority. Like that article stated, it's not child abuse when guidelines are followed. It saves the majority of them from self harm and suicide to say the least. Listen to the medical experts, not some anti-gay politician who spouts untruths to suit their agenda.
But this is the fear story - that somehow they are making transgenderism "cool" so that your kids are going to be turned into freaks. That's the narrative some of these people want to push for their own agenda. They equate saying one is transgender to a kid wanting to get a tattoo.
There are still people who believe being gay is a choice. There are still people who would prefer to disown their gay kid and throw them out on the street than love and accept them for who they are. There are still people who believe they can convert them. It's mind boggling that there is still so much ignorance and lack of empathy and acceptance.
When you have been indoctrinated that homosexuality is a sin it is very hard to accept that it's natural and actually plays an evolutionary role (another idea that the church is against). Ultimately religious beliefs shape a lot of these arguments from the right about the LGBTQ community. I never understood why the party of personal freedom wants to control people's sexuality. But it's ultimately because it's about their freedoms not yours, and it's about them being free to impose their religion onto you.
The hypocritical part of it all is those same types commit sins of all types, whether it's adultery, sex before marriage, hate towards others, bullying, abuse, lying, cheating, and stealing. You can't pick and choose the so called sins to suit yourself. Most of those sins have nothing to do with how they were born like being gay. Their sins are choices they made out of anger, lust, and greed that hurt others. Politicians are the biggest hypocrites.
I'm more in line with @rocketsjudoka reply in post #1627. I am not held to the notion that gender has to be held in binary terms (masculine / feminine). It's a long road for people who take reassignment surgery to determine whether the fit is internal, external, or both. I think society needs a stronger kick in the pants to accept trans people in public places no matter their disposition as many ancient cultures had accepted long ago. That might be asking the impossible for a crowd to accept without a hint of malice a buff statuesque person acting feminine, but it's seems less tortured than sculpting a person to conform to their definition of beauty with Likes to confirm it. I understand that society is superficially cruel and the need is immediate for teens in their worldview. Each country is continuing improve their own standards and laws, and we're all still trying to figure it out. I guess I'd be less ambivalent if it was easier to conclusively determine whether or not perceptions/beliefs were fluid or static. These arguments are generally held in high level abstracts where all trans are one category when the spectrum within is much messier and jumbled. Much like how there are people who are born gay and those who are more fluid while still identifying as gay. To simplify things, we focus on the extreme end of the spectrum so that they can get their immediate needs addressed. Which is generally fine, but I have to pause and consider when it comes to minors given the powerful drugs administered that actively interferes with the clockwork within their bodies.
Trump Jr. really sticking it to the real enemies of this country - trans kids, parents of trans kids, pregnant women, pregnant women’s doctors, kids not wanting to get shot at school, and parents of kids not wanting to get shot at school. Go Trump Jr.!
That's your perspective for sure, but here's why I disagree with you. Your assessment is that transgender individuals are allowing the world's definition of beauty impact what they are going to do in a way that may negatively affect their health, and because you aren't convinced of the science, you take a stance of being at least somewhat opposed to gender reassignment therapy and such. Well the thing is, that for a person who is transgender, their perspective is a lot different than yours. They KNOW what they are, and whether or not it's just this superficial thing or something far more deeper. And from my understanding, this is about something far more deeper. If you woke up tomorrow in a middle aged woman's body I guarantee you, you would not be happy. And if someone told you that trying to get back to your male body was being superficial and you needed to accept what had happened, I doubt you would. Or anyone. Yet that's what we're asking transgender people to do. They were born the wrong gender - one gender in the brain, and a different one in the body. There are many times genetically that a genotype isn't matched to its supposed phenotype. This isn't unheard of at all, in fact it's not even extremely rare across the living kingdom. Science doesn't have the complete answers here, so why not trust these kids, who have no reason to go down this road unless they are dealing with serious trauma. In other words, why is it that people get to let their opinions and beliefs decide what happens to these kids lives over the assessment of the medical community? It comes back to the whole, "screw the doctors and scientists, I know better than them" culture we've entered into. And I am not calling you out here by the way, just pointing out the fallacy in thinking I am seeking in your argument.
I wonder if these people would rather risk their child commit suicide and defy a psychiatrist and doctor's advice, if they said it could help their child.
