The case against Biggio, I think, comes down to his final six years. He was able to collect 3,000 hits, sure - but in doing so, he brought all of his rate stats way down and that pushed him into "compiler" territory. He just wasn't very good, unfortunately. Beyond that, I think he's a victim of his era. The numbers were so outrageous during his prime that he got a little buried, IMO, with only two top 5 MVP finishes (in '97 and especially '98 when home runs were soaring). If he had played a decade earlier/later, I think his greatness would have been more appreciated/understood. And it didn't help that he was not good in the postseason. I don't think it should be held against him - but for a lot of people (like Bill Simmons), that's the only time they really got to see him. His six-year peak ('93-'99) is "greatest middle infielder since WW2" good (132 OPS+; 41.5 WAR) and his runs and doubles marks are impressive. I also think people struggle to understand context. He may not compare to, say, Barry Bonds - but when you lump him with his MI peers, both at the time he played and in the HoF, he compares favorably. He's in line with guys like Morgan, Alomar, Ripken, even Jeter. Craig Biggio doesn't have to apologize to anyone for his induction; he's worthy.
I think the case against him is he was never a great player... he was a really good player for a long time and some people find it hard to consider someone a hall of famer when they were never even the best player on their own team.
I don't see that as much in baseball. Do you want to revisit some of the STACKED rosters of the Yankees, Red Sox, or even modern-day teams (3 Braves pitchers in the HOF)?
Bill James argues that Biggio was the best player in baseball in 1998. Here is a good article from him. The second page of it brings out his dislike of Biggio "hanging on" at the end, but overall, James is a huge Biggio fan. http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2008/02/the_epic_of_craig_biggio.html
Is that your opinion? Or are you speculating what the case against him might be? His 10-year peak ('91-'00) is absolutely, undeniably great: .297/.390/.447/.837 126 OPS+ 51.5 WAR; All-Star at two radically different positions with two top 5 MVP finishes. His 51.5 WAR ranks 6th in that stretch, trailing only Bonds, Griffey, Bagwell, Thomas, E. Martinez. What's REALLY incredible... if you look at just '97-'98, when guys were routinely belting 40+ HRs, including '98... you know who ranks 2nd in WAR over that stretch behind Bonds? Yep, Biggio. His peak is severaly underrated.
I mean if you have other hall of famers on your team who are better than you than yeah but Biggio had Bagwell (a borderline hall of famer) and Berkman (no chance in hell) ahead of him and I doubt either of them ever get in. Im glad someone will be a wearing a 'stros hat in the hall but Biggio was never an elite player. He was a below average defender and a good hitter for 20 years... that is all no more, no less
if he was at least an okay defender than sure you could say he was a great player but if you are only good at half the game than i dont think you are great... the only reason he played so many positions is because he was bad at all of them
Again, you're unclear - is Bagwell borderline as in scratching out votes, or are you suggestion his candidacy is borderline? Jeff Bagwell is a no-brainer Hall of Famer. (And I think Lance Berkman has a pretty decent case.)
He put up great numbers, that is for sure. If he had played another 2-3 years at a decent clip, he would have been in. At the end of the day, his knees probably cost him the HOF. He was Jeff Bagwell good in the batter's box.
What an absurd take. If Biggio were in Yankee pinstripes his entire career, he would be hailed as an all time great and get a Gatorade commercial of him getting out of a cab and walking home.
While Gold Gloves don't necessarily mean much in the overall grand scheme of things, his 5 do indicate he was certainly at least an "okay" defender at 2B.
Yeah, I just briefly looked at his bbref page - probably not a HoF. He wasn't good defensively and even though he played the same number of years as Bags (15), he totaled ~1,600 fewer PAs, which suggets he just wasn't able to stay healthy those final five years (+2005). He was really good in the postseason, though, and has a ring. And his 8-year prime is *really* good (151 OPS+; 40.7 WAR; four top 5 MVPs). I bet he'll get some consideration.
He was, in his prime, a tick above average. It certainly didn't diminish his overall accomplishments.
This. He didn't hit .350 or hit 50 homers so people view him as just "good". People fail to remember that he was a double machine, that got on base, played very demanding positions and was almost a run a game scorer for a long period of time. He really wasnt a "stat complier" more than most Hall of Famers. Hell, Randy Johnson was a stat complier as well, his last 5 years were quite mediocre.
I've seen this take a lot and I disagree. Yankee greats are made in October - that what sets Reggie and Jeter apart, right? Well, if we simply transpose Biggio's career to the Bronx, Yankee fans would have been all over him for his October shortcomings. I think they'd love him - but he'd always be in Jeter's shadow. Also, Piazza played in New York (not a Yankee but still - same media), and not only is he not in, but Biggio went in ahead him (they joined ballot same year). Mussina played with the Yankees and he's not close. Don Mattingly just fell off the ballot after 15 years. Bernie Williams was one-and-done... I don't buy that Yankees sail into Cooperstown. At all. And Biggio is going in with 83% of the votes, which not backing in; the guy was deemed a legitimate HoFer by the BBWAA.
All time stats Hits - 20th Doubles - 5th Doubles by righty - 1st Only player to ever have 3000 hits, 600+ doubles, 400+ steals and 250+ hrs, If you didn't know anything else about how he played, where he played, what position(s) he played...wouldn't the above stats scream HOF'er?
All valid points. I was not dinging Biggio's legitimacy, just pointing out obvious Yankee bias when it comes to perceived legacy going into the HOF. I don't think it's as simple as transposing Biggio's career postseason failures and drawing that conclusion, though. He would have had many more opportunities and a much greater supporting cast (with exception of 98 arguably) so we may have seen a different postseason Biggio. But just transposing his career regular season numbers into a Yankees' career, I 100% think he would have been a first ballot HOFer without anyone arguing against it.
