Hey, Jimbo...how did you make that post disappear? You know, the one right before Achebe calls you a fraud? How do you do such things, Bob? heypartner, I am terribly disappointed in you...why do you say I do not acknowledge the atrocities with Formosa.... I was on your side about bad things Chiang did...why do I have to say I agree with every little thing...I agree, did not feel the need to bolster you up, you $#@%! liar. Seriously, though, why are people still defending "Jim" when he already exposed himself? ------------------ Whitey will pay.
well it couldn't have been heyp, he just knows how to 404 the whole page. BK, how did it feel to get out some aggression against heyp!? <font size="-20" color="#336699"><em>wait, there is another</em></font> Huh Yoda? Oh, Keeley! ------------------ It only costs $180.00 to have a couple of mullets yell in your ear.
Can only admins delete whole posts, now that the "delete" option is off, or could someone savy enough do it anyway? ------------------ Whitey will pay.
Wow, I just flew to New Zealand from Houston, and boy are my arms are tired. But seriously folks, Heypartner has his head so far up his arse that somebody may need to call the paramedics! The fact that Taiwan (Formosa) was raped is irrelevant to the discussion about China. What is important is the state of the Taiwanese government today. Heyputzhead, the American colonists used to hunt Indians with giant Mastiffs. Does that make the United States government illegitimate? Of course not, because every generation, our culture improves. The same has occurred in Taiwan. Every 10 years, the Taiwanese move closer to a true capitalist democracy, and they are NOW our friends. We must honor our commitments to them. Also, you ignore history by saying "we" stole Taiwan from the Chinese government. The standing government in 1948 was run by Chiang, so the standing government was exiled to Taiwan. If anything, mainland China was stolen by the Communists, and Taiwan is the rightful ruler. As for the treaty you claim is illegitimate- you are now manufacturing facts. The American government of Clinton and Bush both say we are bound to the treaty to defend Taiwan. You are the one sticking your head in the sand by pretending the treaty will not be enforced. You may not like the treaty, but the treaty is in force, so in an argument YOU MUST ACCEPT THIS FACT. The US has no claim to defend Formosa in the eyes of the rightful China government. I saved the worst for last. The "rightful" Chinese government" is the same government that killed our troops in Korea, killed millions of their own citizens in purges during the Cultural Revolution, raped Tibet (in an attempt to erase an entire culture), and ran over pro-democracy demonstrating students with tanks. This Chinese government is completely immoral, and has NO RIGHT TO RULE. You, HeyPutzhead, are nothing more than a commie sympathizer who can take a long, slow boat to the mainland where you won't be allowed access to the internet, and won't have any free speech. Drop me a post card and tell me how you like it! ------------------
Say_Jack: what a load of cow dung. " Wow, I just flew to New Zealand from Houston, and boy are my arms are tired. But seriously folks, Heypartner has his head so far up his arse that somebody may need to call the paramedics!" Thanks for your brilliant observation. This didn't get you off to a good start. "The fact that Taiwan (Formosa) was raped is irrelevant to the discussion about China. What is important is the state of the Taiwanese government today. Heyputzhead, the American colonists used to hunt Indians with giant Mastiffs. Does that make the United States government illegitimate? Of course not, because every generation, our culture improves. The same has occurred in Taiwan. Every 10 years, the Taiwanese move closer to a true capitalist democracy, and they are NOW our friends. We must honor our commitments to them." It may not mean much to us, but it DOES justify Chinese antagonism. Heck, the Irish have wanted Northern Ireland back for longer than that. China had land stolen from them, now they want it back. I actually support Taiwan... but I understand their point. "Also, you ignore history by saying "we" stole Taiwan from the Chinese government. The standing government in 1948 was run by Chiang, so the standing government was exiled to Taiwan. If anything, mainland China was stolen by the Communists, and Taiwan is the rightful ruler." This is absolutely fraudulent. Very few people backed Chiang... Mao was MUCH more popular. If legitimacy rests on popular rule... Mao had a much better case. Any government that disagrees with you is NOT illegitmate. Cultural imperialist. "As for the treaty you claim is illegitimate- you are now manufacturing facts. The American government of Clinton and Bush both say we are bound to the treaty to defend Taiwan. You are the one sticking your head in the sand by pretending the treaty will not be enforced. You may not like the treaty, but the treaty is in force, so in an argument YOU MUST ACCEPT THIS FACT." Once again, ignorance. Most people think that American security agreements will NOT hold up in the 21st century. We have a security agreement with nearly EVERY state on the planet. We made them because of the cold war. The cold war is over, they won't be enforced. Americans lie, too. Also, we officially recognize Taiwan as part of China. Intervention would be ridiculously hypocritical. The truth is, we have a security commitment to Taiwan in hopes that China will not invade. Some people believe it may deter China... they might not want to run the risk. It's a paper tiger, though. I think the ODDS are that we wouldn't counter a Chinese military takeover. "The US has no claim to defend Formosa in the eyes of the rightful China government. I saved the worst for last. The "rightful" Chinese government" is the same government that killed our troops in Korea, killed millions of their own citizens in purges during the Cultural Revolution, raped Tibet (in an attempt to erase an entire culture), and ran over pro-democracy demonstrating students with tanks. This Chinese government is completely immoral, and has NO RIGHT TO RULE." What the hell is this insipid polemic? I thought you just said above that past history didn't matter. The US has been propping up dictators and supporting child labor for decades now. We shouldn't be self-righteous. THe US fired on students at Kent St. during the Vietnam era. Wasn't so long ago that we were like them. Is our gov illegitimate? ;; As for Korea, WE INTERVENED FIRST in a civil war. They supported the north, we supported the south. When the south was about to lose... we intervened. When the north was about to lose... they did. Both sides looked after their security interests. You can't blame either one. Hypocrite. "You, HeyPutzhead, are nothing more than a commie sympathizer who can take a long, slow boat to the mainland where you won't be allowed access to the internet, and won't have any free speech. Drop me a post card and tell me how you like it!" Hey bubba, how about respecting other people's opinions? Why don't you go find Joe McCarthy's grave, and plant a few flowers. Paranoia and cultural bigotry like yours creates a self-fulfilling prophecy of future conflict. Oh, and leave people who aren't bigots alone. ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001
haven, Don't forget that our troops actually went INTO China (because we were doing so well in the war, the idea was to kill two birds with one war). After that, the Chinese pushed us back and Korea was divided at about the same place...causing both sides of the war to break even. Also, as argued before, Chiang gained power through revolution, as did Mao...claiming that Chiang held the mandate as ruler is dumb. ------------------ Whitey will pay.
Hey look, it is Haven! I see the socialists are crawling out from under the rocks now. It may not mean much to us, but it DOES justify Chinese antagonism. Heck, the Irish have wanted Northern Ireland back for longer than that. China had land stolen from them, now they want it back. I actually support Taiwan... but I understand their point. What is the matter, are you angry that your comrades did get the entire country in their overthrow of the government of China? You are manufacturing facts, just like you dimwitted little comrade HeyPutzhead, when you say China "had land stolen from them". If the Communists overthrew our government, and Bush flew to Hawaii, would the communists have a right to Hawaii? Your logic is less than impressive. This is absolutely fraudulent. Very few people backed Chiang... Mao was MUCH more popular. If legitimacy rests on popular rule... Mao had a much better case. Any government that disagrees with you is NOT illegitmate. Cultural imperialist. How convenient for people like you to pontificate about how much the people love their communist leaders, when voicing one's opinion in a communist country may mean death. What a joke. What the hell is this insipid polemic? I thought you just said above that past history didn't matter. The US has been propping up dictators and supporting child labor for decades now. We shouldn't be self-righteous. THe US fired on students at Kent St. during the Vietnam era. Wasn't so long ago that we were like them. Is our gov illegitimate? ;; Go ahead and bash our country in defense of the "New Evil Empire". Nobody said America is perfect. We could spend all day listing mistakes made by our country. Our government is merely a collection of imperfect people. You employ a semantic ruse though that has come into vogue in the last 8 years that makes me sick. You socialists and Democrats can't defend your positions because you are forced to argue for unethical institutions or people, so instead you attack the imperfections of men from the past, events of the past, or our country in general. You can't debate the topic at hand, and deal with the cards you are dealt TODAY. For instance, you compare Kent State to Tianamen Square (I assume this is what you mean, but I acknowledge you did not write it down.) In the U.S., the government that was responsible had an election, and Nixon won again, so he was legitimate. You may not like the outcome, and the system has flaws, but we had the best system in the world AT THAT TIME. The Chinese are stuck with their murderous government, who killed over 100 students, blacked out the press, and covered up the whole affair. Now, go ahead one more time and compare the two systems. As for Korea, WE INTERVENED FIRST in a civil war. They supported the north, we supported the south. When the south was about to lose... we intervened. When the north was about to lose... they did. Both sides looked after their security interests. You can't blame either one. Hypocrite. We intervened in an attempt to halt the spread of communism. Communism, as practiced by the Soviets and Red China, strips the freedom of religion, the freedom of the press, the freedom of speech, the freedom to assemble in public, the ability to own property, THE ABILITY TO ENJOY THE FRUITS OF ONE'S LABOR, etc.. The Communists had plans to spread this kind of government around the world. Why don't you ask the Hungarians, the Czechs, or the Romanians if they liked 45 years behind the Iron Curtain. You liberals love to talk about human rights, any you end up defending the most evil institution of the 20th century (the commies killed 140 million?) in an attempt to find cultural relavitism. PATHETIC. Hey bubba, how about respecting other people's opinions? Your opinion is that it is ok for us to allow Taiwan to become slaves of the Red Chinese government. Your opinion is that all of Korea should have been allowed to become Communist, and we were just "intervening in a civil war". I bet that you love your life here in the U.S. now. We are the richest nation that has ever lived, BECAUSE OF OUR CULTURE (don't even start the natural resource argument, because the Soviet Union equaled our resources). Do you notice what happened to the world economy once the Iron Curtain fell? Communism and Socialism are horribly flawed systems that DO NOT WORK. Sweden and France are floundering compared to capitalist countries. People MUST be rewarded for their work, and as long as psuedo intellectuals like you influence people to believe that ideologies have equal value morally, we as humans are less likely to come together as a race. ------------------
Say_Jack: We're the richest country because of our culture? How amusing. Did you know we don't have the highest per capita GDP? Oops. Bet you didn't. Guess who is? Places like Sweden. That happen to be socialist. Your mistake? Bash the United States? No, but the East doesn't embrace the paradigm of individual rights. Community is more important to them. And who's to say it isn't better? Here, the rich are gluttons while homeless people die in the streets. The fruits of one's labor? What utter crap. It's very easy for people who start out well do be successful. Why do you think that people that come from the ghetto statistically do far worse than those from the suburbs? I've lived a priviledged life and have done well. I don't pretend to believe that if I was the child of a welfare crack-abusing mother that I would do similarly. Until we provide equal opportunity to everyone, then we're violating human dignity. Our country reduces people to objects. It alienates them, ridicules them, teaches them impossible dreams, and then punishes them when they breakdown because they're unable to attain those dreams. Go read the "Fetishism of Commodities." The problem with America is that exchange value is warped by our materialistic consciousness. To us, objects... useless garbage... define our individuality. Lawyers and businessmen, who couldn't exist if not for the common workers, produce nothing.... yet the very working people who support the infrastructure that allows them to exist cannot afford their services. Examine the case of the Black Forest Rebels during the Holocaust. A number of Jews escaped to a forest in Germany and Poland, and fought the Reich with a small band of men. The lawyers and businessmen were the lowest on the totem, because they were completely dependent on others for their survivial. They couldn't *do* anything concrete. We pay hundreds of dollars for nice suits, when the actual material is worth pennies. We have so much wealth... yet so much of it is concentrated in the hands of a view. Is their work really worth so much? Economics depends on interdependence. Without any role, all fall down. Yet the actual laborers are paid unevenly to their contribution. Recently, there was a special on 20 20 concerning storage space. They interviewed people who rented space to store excess junk. One woman said at first "this stuff is my life! It is the product of my life!" then at the end of the show, upon being asked about all of this she said "this is all nothing, I could give it all away tomorrow and be happy." That's true about most of us. We overvalue and define ourselves by what means nothing. Put her statements together... "this is my life... it means nothing." Tell me. Is having a latte every morning really worth a child's life? According to our actions, it is. I'm as entrenched as the rest of us. I wear J Crew, drop ridiculous ammounts on gourmet food, and collect CD's. Yet is all this STUFF really worth the injustice that's perpetrated against the unfortunate sweatshop laborers in Asia and South America? Our luxury is paid for with sweat and blood. Is this justice? Can anyone be innocent of culpability? Of course it's not. But it's not going to change any time soon. I'm not a communist, but I think something is dreadfully wrong with capitalism. Our priorities are wrong, and we misunderstand our identities by objectifying ourselves. Then we tell ourselves that America is the bastion of hope and light. Ha. There is much to lvoe about America. Freedom of speech... freedom of religion... democracy... all of that is wonderful. I love our philosophies more than any other. But it's not perfect. We'll never truly be liberated until fundamental fairness is part of our society. And that's a long way away. ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001 [This message has been edited by haven (edited April 11, 2001).]
Actually, the only two "countries" (if you wish to refer to them as that) that have a higher per capita GDP than the US are the Vatican City and Luxembourg....but I know you meant well. Of course, no one has an overall larger GDP. http://www.mrdowling.com/800gdp.html ------------------ stop posting my damn signature
haven, didn't you say in another thread that you were planning to take the LSAT? Seems odd to on the one hand basically say "lawyers and businessmen are worthless" and on the other hand plan on being one yourself. ------------------ I'm about to boldly go where many men have gone before.
SamCassell: Hehe... yes, I'm planning to take the LSAT. I I might become a lawyer. I don't actually think lawyers are worthless, I simply think that they don't receive proper exchange value. They're overpaid for what they do. I'm not a Marxist: I don't have a problem with intellectual labor, just the exorbitant rates that they're paid. I also probably went a little overboard there. I just got sort of angry, and my more radical side let loose. Pole: Apply Purchasing Power ratings to get a truer picture of per capita GDP. ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001 [This message has been edited by haven (edited April 11, 2001).]
Say_Jim Nice that you stayed up to read about some history. You really are trying to actually win this argument now, unlike your previous claim to just be having fun.
Haven We're the richest country because of our culture? How amusing. Did you know we don't have the highest per capita GDP? Oops. Bet you didn't. Guess who is? Places like Sweden. That happen to be socialist. Your mistake? No, your mistake. We have the largest GDP, and a higher per capita income than Sweden. Also, the Swedes pay close to 70% of their income in tax. On the plus side, there is the Swedish Bikini Team. Bash the United States? No, but the East doesn't embrace the paradigm of individual rights. Community is more important to them. And who's to say it isn't better? Here, the rich are gluttons while homeless people die in the streets. In China, millions are starving, while the ruling class lives in luxury. At least here in the U.S., a person has a chance. As for the question of community vs. individual rights, I can't believe you would say such a thing. First of all, community rights is an oxymoron, because by definition, only individuals can have rights. Perhaps you should go to work as a lawyer for two years, and partner up with a couple of other incredibly lazy lawyers. Maybe you could deal with their twice a week golf games while you struggle to bill as many hours as possible. When they decide it is best to split all the income three ways, come back and make your argument again. The fruits of one's labor? What utter crap. It's very easy for people who start out well do be successful. Why do you think that people that come from the ghetto statistically do far worse than those from the suburbs? I've lived a priviledged life and have done well. I don't pretend to believe that if I was the child of a welfare crack-abusing mother that I would do similarly. Until we provide equal opportunity to everyone, then we're violating human dignity. NEWS FLASH! Life is not fair, and never will be. There will always be starving and homeless people, and sometimes these poor folks will be in the gutter by choice. WE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO PROVIDE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYBODY, BECAUSE EVERYBODY WON'T TAKE ADVANTAGE. Our country reduces people to objects. It alienates them, ridicules them, teaches them impossible dreams, and then punishes them when they breakdown because they're unable to attain those dreams. I can only attribute this quote to your having a bad attitude. You are very pessimistic. This happens to starry eyed, young Liberals who are shocked to find out how tough life can be. Pull up your boot straps son, and do the best you can for yourself and your family. Go read the "Fetishism of Commodities." The problem with America is that exchange value is warped by our materialistic consciousness. To us, objects... useless garbage... define our individuality. Lawyers and businessmen, who couldn't exist if not for the common workers, produce nothing.... yet the very working people who support the infrastructure that allows them to exist cannot afford their services Business produces nothing? LMAO. American businesspeople have done more for mankind in the past 100 years than any other group of people that have ever lived. Our farmers, doctors, inventors, and entrepreneurs (did Bill Gates do nothing?) are the best! Who do you think created the jobs??? As for lawyers, I might agree. You will make a fine lawyer. Examine the case of the Black Forest Rebels during the Holocaust. A number of Jews escaped to a forest in Germany and Poland, and fought the Reich with a small band of men. The lawyers and businessmen were the lowest on the totem, because they were completely dependent on others for their survivial. They couldn't *do* anything concrete. I am writing the sequal. In my version, they are all dropped in the middle of Wall St. Different environments produce different results. What of it? As for the rest of your post, you just admit you are a hypocrite, content to live the life you hate because you feel more comfortable. Either join the Peace Corps and live your life in poverty, helping the downtrodden masses, or SHADDDUP. We'll never truly be liberated until fundamental fairness is part of our society. We do have fundamental fairness in our society. Some people are just too negative and guilty to see the truth. Example- The most successful immigrant group in this country (education, savings rate, income) are first generation blacks direct from Africa or the Carribbean. Their average income is the same as the average white's income. (Clarence Page, Chicago newspaper) Gee, how did that happen? Could it be that this group decided to rely on eachother, told the establishment to go to hell, formed their own banks, didn't demand anything from the government, and worked 20 hours a day? The most damaging force is this country is guilty white socialism, and I wish it would just STOP! ------------------ [This message has been edited by Say_Jack (edited April 11, 2001).]
Say_Jim_Bob The question is are you having fun while I'm rounding up some admins (and not the Clutch type) to trace your true address to report to a network of server admins throughout the world to add you to their blocking list for forwarding of any packet requests from you coming across our servers. Oh, and if your illegal surfing ass does not know what that means it will look like random "request timed out"s while your are surfing or email-ing. What you are doing is child's play and there are plenty of kids out there looking to toy with address thiefs like you.
heyp, So how did he erase his post? Or, at least, do you know how he did (my mind only works in abstract thought...all of this computer mumbo-jumbo really really hurts my head)? Hey-Jim-Bob, What is the point? ------------------ Whitey will pay.
he didn't erase it. an admin did for purposes of stealth. but, he is flaunting it now, and you guys kept mentioning it, so I might as well tell everyone, not to do what he is doing. I will track you down, and report you to a world-wide blocking list. Screw losing BBS privileges...that's petty. You will lose Internet surfing privileges...oh, but just randomly....you know, in an annoying pesky way.
And for those who might think Say_Jim_Bob actually is hear to make an argument, notice how he is spewing Western propoganda while desparately trying to read up to prove me wrong. As for his reading lesson, he finally admits Chiang was an EVIL EMPIRE just like any "pinko Chinese govt" by agreeing he "raped" Formosa, and needed the support of the US to remain a puppet dictator. And we are supposed to believe we are bound to uphold this Treaty. It is obvious from history, Taiwan is and always was a strategic military and commercial objective of ours. We stole it after the war and don't want to give it back. As for the quotes from Clinton and Bush, read up some more boy; you are starting to learn. For your next reading, I suggest reading about how we dropped diplomatic relationships with the carpetbaggers in Taiwan to secure diplomatic relations with the true Chinese government. So, let me get this straight, we have to uphold a formal treaty with a govt who we no longer recognize with formal diplomacy. Yeah, Say_Jim_Bob, I'm no longer having fun, because you are ignorant of history of China, and it is boring me. Oh, and if you so much as respond to this thread, we just might decide to place you on the illegal underground permanent blocking list
Allright...sorry, heyp. I was just treating it as a logic puzzle! ------------------ Whitey will pay.
Coming from someone who equates an embryo to a human being, I take that as a compliment! ------------------ "Blues is a Healer" --John Lee Hooker
