College/tuition: The largest of scams in plain site

You want a free education. That is a completely different subject. And there are several free online courses and you can learn most things on youtube.

 

No I want student debt relief for those who choose to go for higher education. Do u think folks that choose to b doctors nurse pharmacist, dentist and etc enjoy being 100k+ in debt?

10 k does nothing. Lol imagine trying to get a license to practice with watching youtube.

If student debt relief is too much for the Republicans to stomach at least set the loan interest rate to 1% or 0%. Paying what u owe should b more doable.

 

Practical application? Lab work? Group projects? Half my time in college was hanging out at our school's machine shop building and just working on projects with classmates and using 400 grand cnc mills and lathes.

 

That is already part of this - not through interest rates, but the student debt burden is being dramatically reduced in terms of payment structure:

• For undergraduate loans, cut in half the amount that borrowers have to pay each month from 10% to 5% of discretionary income.
• Raise the amount of income that is considered non-discretionary income and therefore is protected from repayment, guaranteeing that no borrower earning under 225% of the federal poverty level—about the annual equivalent of a $15 minimum wage for a single borrower—will have to make a monthly payment.
  
• Forgive loan balances after 10 years of payments, instead of 20 years, for borrowers with original loan balances of $12,000 or less. The Department of Education estimates that this reform will allow nearly all community college borrowers to be debt-free within 10 years.
  
• Cover the borrower’s unpaid monthly interest, so that unlike other existing income-driven repayment plans, no borrower’s loan balance will grow as long as they make their monthly payments—even when that monthly payment is $0 because their income is low.

These things, to me, are far more valuable than the silly one-time $10k forgiveness, which is very gimmicky. Still doesn't do anything to address rising college costs, though.

 

Tbh I feel like Biden attempt to allieve the student loan was mostly targeted at the undergrads.

If this bullet point is tru and is applied to the graduates of higher education that's a lot better than a measly 10k.

Paying what u owe should b doable. The interest rates r what fks people over

 

Become an apprentice for a machine shop.
The best group projects is working with co-works/customers/vendors

I am not dismissing university. However much of it can be pared down.

Ironically enough, its the creative/BA side that is the hardest to learn in the workplace.

This really gets down in the fundamental issues in the modern culture. There is a way too often expectation that once a paper is handed to someone, they world owes them everything.

 

But I went to school for engineering, not to become machinist.

Free education allows people without means to have a convenient destination where subject matter experts, organized curriculums and expensive equipment all work hand in hand in teaching a trade/profession etc. Why wouldn't society want that?

I mean I feel like your rhetoric is when someone says "higher education should be free" and you are like "just take online courses".

 

It seems like the college landscape in the rest of the world is dominated by state-run institutions. A lot of their college students end up subsidized by taxpayers and don't come out with debt problems. Their cost base (for the taxpayer) is also lower because the state schools will not spend what US private universities will spend for things like beautiful campuses, small classes, personal attention, curricular flexibility, world-renowned professors, or cutting-edge research. The US also has a large presence of state schools. But state governments have decided their schools would operate under quasi-competitive-market principles, so they have to charge market rate tuitions and provide a level of investment in students more akin to the private school competitors, while still with the other hand taking the government largesse of guaranteed student loans. We do have many of the best schools in the world, which is great, but it's small wonder that the costs are out of control.

Forgiving some student debt does nothing to fix this problem. I'm fine with the policy because I think it will help young adult households establish themselves and provide larger social benefits, but if we don't address the problem it'll happen again. The elite private schools with large endowments are moving toward a no-loan paradigm, which is great. I think all the state schools, though, need to divorce themselves from the competitive market for education entirely and move to the socialist models we see elsewhere in the world. Federal or state government can move to provide much, much more financial support to the kids who go to public colleges, and cut entirely their support for anyone going to a private one. The elite schools will survive on their endowments, and even continue to attract poor kids so long as they can fund those kids' education on private donations. The also-rans of private colleges will probably go out of business, which is fine. And we'll spend a lot more tax money on public colleges, but costs can be contained, and we'd recoup most of that money in more financially prosperous households.

There would remain (and probably grow) a divide in the perception of the value of a college degree from a state school versus one from a private school. Private schools will probably keep producing our supreme court justices. The social stratification is a bit problematic, but it doesn't make a public school degree worthless -- we can see how public school degrees in other countries are well regarded even where they have private school industries. And then, of course, there's graduate school to tackle....

 

The left always wants to ignore who crated the jobs for those making under 75k…. But that’s none of my business. This is why they want to replace us with Mexicans.

 

The theme of this thread is to discuss the broken college tuition system. There is one camp who states 'make it free and/or forgive the debt'.

I tend to think of myself as a progressive person (i really dont care about social issues). We live in dynamic age and we should take advantage of it. My point about online courses is that the information is readily available and free. Nobody should be paying for it anymore. Students shouldn't be paying hundreds of dollars for books each semester. And we really dont need the run-of-the-mill student living on campus that costs thousands each semester. We dont need to use the old system to 'educate' someone. There can be many hybrid systems that can be used, including apprenticeships, co-ops, and internships...or any other new idea. Going to school does not make someone intelligent. Its what a person does with the given resources provided/earned.

Universities still have a very useful role. I am not discounting that. Nor am I suggesting a person watch a few you-tube videos and deem themselves doctors. There are still state exams that should be passed before a person is allowed to practice.

I find it very ignorant, as a society, that we lock students up in tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for a piece a paper that does them little good. This should not be allowed.

 

Most of the advances you see in the world are done by people with not just college degrees, but advanced degrees. They don't learn that **** on youtube. All technology you see and use today, are developed by people with an education.

We in the US can let other countries do it for us, and just create a nation of workers but if you think that makes our country more financially secure, you're horribly wrong.

 

The way college is kept affordable, by and large, in the rest of the OECD is by limiting access.

Systems which test 13-17 year olds and determining whether they are worthy of societies investment in their college education.

That means telling a lot of people "No." BTW, any such gate keeping will absolutely mean children from poorer backgrounds, often of color, who haven't had access to as good early education/parental involvement/ etc etc will be severely affected.

Have fun dealing with that.

 

Que? The vast majority of people live very mundane lives with jobs of little importance.

If you bothered to read my other post, I stated Universities are needed for the people you described. Universities have tradionally been reserved for some of the best and brightest people who were very passionate about their studied, not for people who want to argue and troll on the internet or spend their lives making dumb tik tok videos.

 

Are you saying liberal arts degrees have no value anymore?

 

Better approach would be figuring out why college is so expensive and how to make it more affordable. How is it that university can't afford to pay professors a healthy salary and yet are charing 50K in tuition a year now? Think about that.

I've done work with universities, and just their marketing teams can stretch into the 40's or 50's. That's a crazy excess in people to do a relatively straightforward marketing for these schools who don't spend much in media dollars. Why is it that deans are making CEO salaries now?

Education doesn't need to cost this much. The solution isn't to stop people from getting educated so our society becomes weaker on the global stage, but to figure out how to get more people educated cheaply.

 

Then how come when I mentioned 10k debt relief is nothing especially if u aspire to work in the health profession.

U told me what I wanted was free education and that I could learn sht via online.

10k really does nothing to those with 100k+ in debt after finishing graduate school.

 

Florida Gators' New Heavener Football Training Center

https://www.si.com/college/florida/...oto-gallery-heavener-football-training-center

Higher education baby!

 

i dont understand how you came to this conclusion.

 

HO HO HO

Oh, to be young and naive, like you. Do you believe the Democrats will stop at $10k of "debt relief"? No chance they'll stop at $10k. If they get this through, they'll go bigger and bigger in the future. This is step one (see below). This deal is not good for society. It incentivizes MORE borrowing and it incentivizes universities to raise tuition. Both will inflame the student debt problem that we already have. Address the root cause of the problem -- the COST of college. Universities should lower their costs so that six-figure debt burdens are not required. Harvard has a $50 BILLION endowment. Spend some money to lower your costs to better serve your students. Don't jack up tuition and then look to tax payers to bail out students who can't repay the school. Democrats are truly clueless when it comes to fiscal and economic policy. They want to help, but they don't know the best way to do it -- and their natural instincts usually yield the worst way to go about handling the issue. This example is no different.

Raphael Warnock, Senator from Georgia, admitted that this is just "Step 1": “This is only a first step for the countless Georgia borrowers who will still be burdened by crushing debt tomorrow, and the day after that. So I’m going to keep fighting for additional student relief for all Georgians left struggling with student debt and to prevent future borrowers from carrying that same burden,” Warnock said.