Are you the old guy that stormed out onto the floor and put a big flag up in her face? If so, you look a lot older than I expected.
I was wondering where this thread was..... I went to a catholic high school for a while back in the eighties. I had a teacher there who was a Franciscan priest. As a Franciscan he had made vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience to "God". Each morning during the Pledge of Allegiance, he would stand silent with his hands folded, eyes closed, and head bowed. When asked about this his said he had already pledged his allegiance to "God", therefore he could not say the Pledge. That really opened my eyes. And now I am not so quick to judge.
So far this post hasn't delved much into party politics, and it really shouldn't. This is about individual opinions.
It should also be pointed out that people are not allowed to yell fire in a crowded room. Her actions are getting to the point of becoming a problem. If it ever crosses that line she needs to take her protest somewhere else.
But the government is not our parent. It is a democracy, you know "of the people, by the people" that whole bit. The government is put there by us. It is our right to protest and our duty to make sure that the ideals of democracy are upheld. None of us have been "given" something for free.
Wow, no rhetoric is beneath you. None. So a few people agree on a general topic and they now exhibit "group think?" Let me describe a more tangible and legitimate example of group think to you: A fearful people conglomerate in gated communities to avoid the spector of crime. They all watch the same TV news programs, listen to the same talking heads, drive the same sorts of vehicles. They all watch the same special on Saddam Hussein's torture chambers at the same time on network television. They attach little national flags to the radio antenae of their SUVs. They believe other nations in the world are confused. They believe their nation is smarter and more worthy than other nations. They even come to accept an unspoken axiom: that they are not so much lucky to be so affluent in their country, but that they somehow deserve their unprecedented level of food, clothing, and shelter; it is their birthright. The people believe this, as a group, even as a billion other people live without decent drinking water. ... I am speaking, of course, of the French.
There is a huge difference between a woman turning her back on the flag during an anthem and someone yelling fire in a crowded room. If people can't control their emotions and not run onto a court or something, maybe they have the problem, not this woman exercising her First Amendment rights. Jeez.
I have no problem with turning your back on the flag or a political leader. It's a non-violent form of protest. And I think all people have a right to voice their opinions. I just think there should be some degree of respect for the reasons you're given a particular spotlight. I don't want to hear Kobe's views on abortion in a post-game interview. I'm not concerned with Francis' views on the Middle East. I thought it was in poor taste when Nash went on and on about Iraq at the all-star game. Academy award winners shouldn't include support for or criticism of world governments when accepting an award for their role in a film. Perhaps she should bow her head and close her eyes if she finds the US flag so repugnant. I just don't think this was the time or place for a noticeable demonstration against US policy.
She's entitled to her opinion, no matter how wrong it is PS- I bet we see her on talk shows in about 3 years about how much abuse she took for her stunts today and how sorry she was.
I think she thinks she has. She is turning her back on all those who have made the ultimate sacrifice for this country. She is a silly college kid who thinks she is changing the world. I wish we could all ignore her. Her gesture is just silly theatrics. We should honor our flag and all that it stands for. There is a time and place for everything. I wish the coach would kick her off the team because this is not the time or place for such protest. You honor the flag because you love America-- warts and all. You can still want to get rid of the warts and still love America. This is self-centered silliness from an arrogant college kid.
I really see where you're coming from. But early on in this thread, somebody asked why sporting events were an appropriate place for the national anthem at all. That's a good question too. You don't get the anthem (yet) at the movies or at a play or an opera. I really don't want to hear Kobe talk about politics, but maybe I don't want to hear nationalism when I just want to see Stevie dunk in Kobe's face!
Am I in the minority here in thinking the flag represents all that's good about this nation? I tend to differentiate the flag from the government. When I think of the stars and stripes, I think of the men and women who have died in our military, I think of the great leaders of our past, and I think of the freedoms we are all blessed with... Seeing this chick turn her back to the flag, makes me feel she's turning her back on everything that is good about our country. Flag does not equal Government...at least in my opinion. This part irritates me greatly...if you don't like living in your own country, you really should get the **** out.
There are some who feel they have a moral obligation to protest abortion. Should they be labelled un-American? There are those who march in support of white supremecy. Should they be denied their voice? Should we not have dumped tea into Boston Harbor? Should women have just kept their mouths shut instead of protesting for voting rights? Should blacks simply have accepted seperate but equal treatment from the government? I just don't get you guys. You blast some college kid who obviously feels very strongly about her own protest (she'd have to in order to deal with some of the assholes hurling insults in her direction) as some sort of un-American freak who should be run out of America on a rail. Sometimes, people disagree with their government. Sometimes, they feel that it is their moral and ethical responsibility to stand up and support those beliefs by whatever means they feel is necessary. This country was founded on the right of every single American to express his/her viewpoint in the manner he/she sees fit as long as it is within the bounds of legality. She is doing absolutely nothing that is un-American. In fact, demanding that she fall in line and shut the hell up is actually FAR more un-American than her protest. Actually, that sounds more communism than democracy. That's why Freedom of Speech is guaranteed to us in the Constitution. I may not like everything that people protest for or against, but I am damn sure going to defend their right to say it. THAT FREEDOM is what people fought and died for. That is the ideal that makes us Americans.
If your point is taken then her argument makes no sense. The goverment is of the people, so how can she be complaining that the people (system, goverment) are not working to better people's lives. It's a contradiction if you ask me. The people created the system, they are the government, and yet they are trying to undercut their own existence. Doesn't seem like a logical argument from a general perspective. If you point is not taken, then the goverment is a parenting device that she needs to respect. The other point I'd like to make is that she's done nothing other than grab our attention. Which she has done very well, but her points are very unspecific and so her message is getting lost in her actions.
LMAO. You are one strange bird. Minutes before you posted the above, you said- I refused to stand up for the pledge of allegiance or even really look at the flag after the 2000 election. and She doesn't agree with what the flag stands for right now, and I partially agree with her, I don't feel that the government is representing me at all anymore. and I wonder if Bill O'Rielly has accused this girl of being a terrorist yet and John Ashcroft is watching you! and You could say the same for Bush really. Forcing a very controversial issue down our throats, whether we like it or not.. I'd say he's being disrespectful to us and opportunistic in his methods of using post 9-11 fears to fuel a war for economic and political interests. I would hate to see what you post when the discussion becomes partisan!
The Flag does not represent some idealistic view of our country, it represents our country,the one that saved France in WWII, the one that forced Native Americans off of their land. She's expressing her voice in a time that veering a step off of the beaten path is panamount to treason. If you disagree with her, that's your opinion, but if you say she's some ignorant little girl, you should really look in the mirror first.
But she is turning away from the flag, so to me she is turning away from those things you just said about America. She is turning away from the freedoms this country represents. Either that or she doesn't believe America stands for these things. It would be interesting to know what here views are in more detail.
