Colin Kaepernick protests anthem due to treatment of minorities

The citations are right there, in the full report.

You choose to ignore studies and statistical findings. Objectively speaking, you have not won any arguments on this forum because exactly this reason.

 

Nope, I just read all the data and I don't cherry pick like you did. You spin spin spin. You did it here.

Here's the part of the wikipedia article you didn't bother to post (yes I know you got your info from wikipedia line by line and you didn't even bother to credit it - that's called plagiarism bobby)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States


Look bobby, I have called you out so many times and undressed you again and again. You simply refuse to debate honestly and instead just spew all these garbage things about me. I'm close to writing you off as a total waste of time and not a partial one. Clean-up your act and start posting more honestly.

 

What does that have to do with the rationality or irrationality of their claimed fears? Big Macs are objectively more dangerous to black people than police officers are. Fearing the latter is irrational. Fearing a terrorist attack more than a drunk driver is irrational, because you are objectively more likely to be killed by a drunk driver, even though they have a social contract duty not to harm you while the terrorists do not. Being afraid of death by cop, simply because you are black, is moronic.

There have been riots quite recently in Ferguson, in Baltimore, in Sanford, etc. It turned out they were based on lies. The presence of riots against police brutality is not evidence of police brutality.

Who said people do not deserve equal justice? Of course people deserve equal justice. That has nothing to do with whether or not a black person should be afraid of police officers.

The odds of having any sort of negative interaction with the police while not engaging in criminal behavior are very, very low, regardless of bias or unequal treatment. Granting, arguendo, that blacks receive unfair treatment, it is still irrational for law abiding black people to fear the police. The police are objectively low on the list of risks faced by black Americans.

Statistically insignificant numbers of unarmed people of any race are shot by the police. A great majority of those were actively engaged in fighting with officers. To fear this happening to you is irrational. Death by household accident is more likely.

You mean like in Ferguson, where a DOJ investigation turned up a few dozen emails over a period of five years that had racist jokes in them? That kind of racism run amok? That is what you are relying on to say it is perfectly rational for black people to fear the police?

It isn't that I am ignoring the studies, it is that even with the studies, nothing changes the fact that the police are not a grave danger to the average black person. You know who is far more likely to shoot and kill them? Other black people in the same neighborhood.

 

SMH, your delusions of competence are hilarious. I'm sure you think quoting inaccuracies is "undressing" someone, but it's just not the case. I never suggested that there wasn't a link between poverty and crime, I just accurately pointed out that it doesn't explain it all. You call it cherry picking, but you know I'm right. There no explanation for less than 15% of the population being responsible for over 52% of the murders over a nearly 30 year sample. That's more than just poverty, there are other factors involved most notably cultural factors.

It's also funny that you suggest that I'm not posting honestly when you can find the same numbers I did.....

Anyway, I know you want to throw this all on "the man", but if you really wanted change the only way to accomplish that is to clean up the black community, change the culture....you know, like Tupac so ironically said.

When a majority of children in a group are raised by single parents in poverty....it's not "the man", it's not cops, it's the people in the group that need to change. Of course a scapegoat is always easier to sell.

 

This is not about who's to blame for blacks being poor - that is an entirely separate conversation Bobby/Mojo/Moniker.

The fact is that studies clearly show police bias against blacks that is statistically significant. Whether you think that's no big deal or tolerable is fine. You can excuse racism and bias whether it's in police department A or B - but it comes up often from LA to Baltimore and to others. Many police chiefs have stated as much about the departments they served.

The facts say there is bias. It's not really something you can dispute honestly.

The question is whether you think blacks have a right to fight against such bias. It appears you do not - so that's fine. I understand why you feel that way. I call that racism, and you call it something else.

 

I disagree that there is widespread systemic bias against blacks and I haven't seen the "facts" that suggest otherwise. Saying that black people are more likely to go to jail or be arrested isn't evidence of bias. Usually that's what people bank on when trying to make that case.

For the most part all I've seen is people trying to sell a scapegoat.

 

Wait wait wait. If blacks only made up 15% of the population, why did the commit 52% of the murders?

Can you explain that please? White peoples fault? Cops fault? Clutchfans fault?

 

Why don't you tell us why? Lay it out for us, educate us.

This should be good. lol

 

Multiple factors including poverty, a culture that accepts and in some ways promotes violence, a ridiculously high percentage of children being raised by single parents. Change the culture, change the results......or just blame it on "the man" and other scapegoats like police who so cruelly do their jobs by arresting people for committing crimes.

 

How do you change the culture?

 

Well for someone who ignores judicial findings, DOJ findings, police study findings, and basically every finding ever reported that shows bias, prejudice, and racism quite rampant in policing, business, elections, and life in general I'm going to excuse you from the conversation because you're a waste of everyone's time.

 

Who said black people can't fight against bias? I simply said it is irrational to fear the police. Fight away. I would suggest a more effective strategy than violent and destructive protests that are based on lies (as we saw in Ferguson, Sanford, and Baltimore), but they can do whatever they like, within the bounds of the law. Recognizing the presence of bias, but realizing that even with the bias, you most likely will never be severely negatively impacted by the police should go some ways to removing the fear of the police.

 

Excellent post.

 

You change the values, for a start.

To begin with, they need to be treated as equals, rather than as inferior creatures that need to be propped up with all kinds of special programs and with the lower standards inherent in the Democrat left's "political correctness" agenda. While this stuff is offensive to people like me, it is destroying them, regardless of how much short-term fun they think they are having going around indiscriminately attacking others who they feel hostility towards as racists and bigots.

This framework of inequality is built around a perverse array of double standards, where there is zero tolerance by these people for any perceived deviation from "politically correct" speech and thought patterns from European "white" people, while there are extremely low standards, with almost none of these same sorts of expectations for "people of color," which is another way of saying anyone other than European "white" people, but which are especially low when it comes to "black" people.

Anytime you apply what is effectively an impossibly high standard to one group - in this case clearly with the intent to provoke and harass - and what is effectively an impossibly low standard to a different group, in a society that claims to value all people equally, that has the effect (apparently unanticipated in some people's minds) of devaluing the people with the lower standard.

If you value equality, then you will strive towards equality, you will expect your own conduct to be consistent with that equality, naturally starting with the expectations in personal behavior, including manners and personal conduct. These expectations must be embraced by their leaders, certainly including their elected representatives, and also thought and opinion leaders, such as those frequently active in the media.

Also, that needs to include leadership from others they look up to, such as sports heroes, such as, well, Colin Kapernick.

So this current episode by Kapernick is as far as I can tell a protest against the police. This is just the sort of anti-social behavior that is especially counterproductive at this time to the people he appears to want to advocate for.

Rioting in the streets under the protection of black political leadership, indiscriminately killing cops, and knocking out helpless old people and then running away (remember the knock-out "game?) are not demonstrations of any kind of behavior that we can sustain a civilization in the presence of. These actions are not the fault or responsibility of the police, but of those people who have perpetrated these heinous crimes.

The answer here cannot be expecting the police to stand down so these people can run lawlessly wild, as we witnessed in Baltimore. It has to be to raise of the values and standards of these people up, to a level that is equal with everyone else, with no expectations of special treatment. This will help to affirm their value in our society and in their own eyes. Anything else just sends the message - especially to them - that they are not equal.

And certainly, if and when the police act wrongly towards anyone, they must be held accountable to the highest extent of the law.

This is the first step, without which true equality for these people will never be realized. But their political leaders do not want any of this, for obvious political reasons. As long as they don't, it is not going to happen.

 

In short - the expectation of equality and equality of action and not the appearance of equality through legislation

 

Interesting that the conservative approach appears to be (not surprisingly), "conservative." "Pull up by bootstraps", "don't make waves", "fit in".

But no where in the conservative approach is a recognition that there is a problem. That inequality exists. That political, economic, law enforcement, judicial, societal problems exist. Instead, the blame is placed on the very people that are suffering from inequality.

And the conservatives assign some (perhaps much) blame on "liberal" or Democratic policies and partisanship, the conservative solution is to instead become conservatives. So instead of being partisan against them, they want those with problems to be partisan *with* them.

I wonder why this approach won't work?

 

Ahhh yes, the old white guys get a 400 year head start and then somehow it's supposed to be even when the law (but not practice) says no more discrimination. Makes perfect sense.

So since we know there isn't equal treatment in employment, promotion, criminal justice, recognition of gifted and talented in schools, and over identification as special educational services, then those leaders should take stands to battle for justice and equality.

Here is where part of the problem is. I don't know whether it is your fault, or the portrayal by the media or both. But do you think the knock-out game was part of the culture for black communities in this country? If so that's a huge problem. It was never part of the culture. It was probably fewer than 15 people the engaged in it and thought it and made a game out of it. It isn't good for anyone to do that, but for you and anyone else to hold a belief a part of black youth culture is that kind of thing creates problems.

1. It's a problem that you would believe it was a part of the culture, and that it was in anyway accepted by the culture at large. Why is it that you would be willing to believe that of certain people?

2. If hard working black community members are going about their business but know there are some folks out there that see them as people who condone or engage in knock-out game, then it isn't going to help relations.

3. When whites have engaged in violent or inappropriate activities it is never seen as part of white culture. Why when it was some minorities that did, was there an assumption it was part of the culture.

If we improve these kinds of problems and get rid of these assumptions about people, then that would be a huge start in fixing the inequality that is prevalent in our judicial system, school system, employment, etc.

 

there is no evidence that "culture" is a factor in crime. The data shows it is socioeconomic. The data shows a police bias against blacks.

Yet you and others try to spin it otherwise because of your own bias.

 

As always is the case, the more Bobby debates, the more exposed he gets.

Waiting for the inevitable "I give up, you guys are dumb, I'm out" post from him.