I think you are misunderstanding. When a player such as Francis continues to make boneheaded play after boneheaded play, that is not a JVG-type of player. That's not any coach's type of player. And that talk about the true test of a coach's greatness is the ability to coach to the strength of a team is such bs. The coaches that win are the coaches with the stud players. Riley had Jabbar, Worthy, and Magic. Jackson had Shaq, MJ, Kobe, and Pippen. Pops has Duncan. Rudy had Hakeem. Daly had Isiah and Dumars. Bird, Mchale, and Parish would make any coach seem great. JVG really doesn't have that stud... yet. Yao can become that player. Steve doesn't seem to be able to. JVG has been trying to go into Yao all season long. Our players don't seem to understand that too well sometimes and Yao doesn't seem to be able to get the job done other times. I honestly think in our situation, it is the players that inhibit the team from becoming great. Coaches can make a team good, but players make a coach great. As I said in my post above, Rudy didn't seem too willing to change, so I'm waiting to see what JVG is up to in the next couple of years. I'm willing to wait... the Rockets aren't going away (hopefully) and I'll still be a fan...
Again, the question remains unanswered. Do you feel that 5-8 in the west was stronger this year or last year? I've made it very clear what I think. You keep skirting the issue.
I think I already answered, but you won't listen: "You feel last year's 5-8 is more scary doesn't really mean it's the truth. I believe in stats and facts more than what people think it should be. " The top 4 teams have improved more doesn't make the 5-8 teams weaker. It's all relative. This year's Memphis and Dallas all should be able to beat last year's 5-8 teams(#5 Lakers without Payton and Malone), this year's Rox and #8 is no worse than last year's Suns. Overall I say 5-8 teams last year and this year are about same. Is the answer clear enough for you?
Right here! ^^^ By the way, to those that dislike JVG.... Rudy had from 1997 to 2003 seasons (to get back to the playoffs). JVG has only had ONE year.
So you are implying Francis doesn't fit anyone's system but Rudy's, this just doesn't make sense. If Francis is as bad as you described, why the Rockets gave him the max contract in the first place? I know CD & the Co made many foolish moves, but I just cannot image they couldn't see what you see after watching Francis for THREE years? Of course you need stud players to win, no one deny that. But Shaq & Kobe had Del Harris & Kurt Rambis with their system; Jordan & Pippen had Doug Collins with his system. It is Jackson with his system made them a winner. Do you think Riley would have won those rings if he had the Lakers play the Bad Boys defense, or Daly would have won if he ask Lambeer to play the Show Time offense? I don't think so. Great coaches are the ones who utilize their players strength the best. We only talk about the winners here, but there are many more who have failed with the stud players because they didn't know how to use them correctly! I'm not saying it's all JVG's fault, but he has not lived up to the expectation of the Rockets orgnization and majority of the fans. Do you honest think both he & Les envisioned 43-35 at this point of the season? I'm all in for giving him another year, or two to prove his system, but the fact is he was expected to do better than 43-35 this year, but he failed.
Why do you keep putting Francis in the same league as players that Riley and Jackson had? Why? Why? Why? Need proof? What did Riley do in Miami with lesser players? Francis is NOT Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Jordan or Pippen (or Hakeem/Drexler). He's no where near them! Francis can't do the things you ask him to. NO matter how much coaching you give him! Psssttt...we pay him MAX contract. That means CD/RUDY *thought* that he would improve. They thought that he would be *the* franchise player. He hasn't. Normal players do improve. So it wasn't a reach to think that he would improve. P.S. Jackson arrival w/the Lakers was timed. He let Kobe/Shaq lose first by selfish play. It was much easier for him to enter at that time, rather than just come in with Kobe as a rookie. I voted: More good than bad
I completely agree. I really don't know what people on this board that defend Francis see in him. His shortcomings are clear as day to me and he's had more of a chance than most franchises would have given him. You have a coach that is well respected in the profession barely masking his dislike for Francis' game. Why the hell do people think this guy is going to lead this team to the top. Sometimes you hold them and sometimes you fold them.
Why do you twist my post, make things up to support your point? Where did I ever said that Francis is as good as those other players? I've said it all along that Francis is a great athlete, but an average basketball player. Dr of Dunk believes coach is rather irrevent in teams achievement. I believe a coach can play an very important role, just as the players do, by listing great coaches' ability to adapt to the players talent & strength. What I've found is that you have a pattern of making some flawed statement, when someone points that out, you never answers the call, but turn around to put a spin on something else. There is no point to discuss anything with you here!
daoshi, I didn't mean to "twist your post" I got ahead of myself... Listen, you brought up OTHER teams like the Lakers, Bull and Pistons in regards to their coaches that lead them to titles... You talked about how they made an impact on their team because of how they coached. That to me was implying that just because a "great" coach is hired, that he just automatically makes a champion out of a team. But you forget that those "great" coaches ALSO had great players that knew how the play the game. The whole game. Sure, they have a unqiue way of teaching the players. But those players have to improve as well. It's give and take. JVG doesn't yet have a team with that type of talent. Not yet. Francis is lacking. And Yao is learning. So you can't use those other coaches as examples and compare them to JVG without first letting JVG build a team. At least more time than ONE FRICKEN YEAR! Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, and Chuck Daly had more than ONE YEAR! They made roster changes and fine tuned the team. Plus, they all had excelent team leaders! Why can't you give JVG the same leeway? By the way, I know what your point is. It's that JVG has not lived up to YOUR expectations after ONE year. Ok, fine... But that's not the case for me. I feel that Francis makes ANY COACH's job harder (even Rudy's). It doesn't matter what coach you bring in here, it will always hinge on how good Francis plays/or does not play. That's why I keep bringing up Francis. He's one of the our MAIN players with a MAX contract. And in my eyes, "great athlete, but average basketball player" isn't worth it. I mean, do you think that just because some coach (not JVG) came in here and utilized Francis in a way that worked to his strong points, that it would suddenly lessen his turnovers? That it will somehow make him hit his shots better? That sounds more like putting Francis in a "supporting role" not a "leading role" to me. Ok.. And what would happen if a coach did that (utilize Francis's strengths but limited his weaknesses)? Would that justify a max contract for Francis? And we'd have a "half a player" running around getting that MAX money. That wont happen. JVG had ONE year to make something out of this team. And he hasn't lived up to YOUR expectations with the "talent" that he has. Do you expect him to just pull a 55 win out of his butt? What? He needs the players to do that job as well. If they are competent then it makes his job easier. But if they don't give back, what differences does it make? It goes both ways. The players have to give something back to. And Francis has not lived up to his expectations in 5 years. JVG has only had ONE year. Look at what JVG has to work with and the situation that he's in. Not just the one year time frame.
More bad than good... I guess... ...which does indicate some good. Terrible coach/player communicative skills (it appears) though. Motivates through negativity, not true praise. Looks like Gargamel.
