CNN's concerted strategy of hurting our war effort

Anyone critical of the war IS helping the enemy. The only way the enemy wins is if the US withdraws. What is the goal of the people against the war? I am not saying that the people against the war like the enemy, or support the enemy, only that their goal is the same as the enemy's.

Saddam had a well publicized program that payed thousands of dollars to the families of suicide bombers. Regardless of any ideological qualms he may have had against suicide bombers, al Queda, or religious fanatics in general, he still sponsored terrorists.

Saddam used violence against civilians for political gain. He was just already in power when he was doing it. There was a reason he consistently won election to the office of president with over 99% of the vote.

I never said it was not ok to criticize anything (I should clarify this, I don't think criticizing the war should be punished, I obviously disagree with doing it). I said doing so is helpful to the enemy, as the goals of the anti-war movement and the goals of the Iraqi insurgents coincide. In America we have freedom of speech.

It has accomplished the removal of Saddam Hussein from power. What the end result will be has yet to be determined, hough leaving now would probably not generate the best end result for American interests.

 

**** you

 

Al Qaeda's goal is for the U.S. to stay in Iraq.

The families of criminals are not criminals.

criticizing the govt. and exercising our freedoms is far from helping the enemy, but shows the weakness of all they believe. It only makes the U.S. stronger.

Not criticizing the govt. and efforts to curtail that criticism is what helped Saddam hold power. Those tools and efforts to stop something should never be praised or deemed as a good thing helpful to a nation.

 

Anyone who supports the war has gravely injured America. Basically, that's the same as your "if you are not with us, you'r with the enemy" line of thinking.

Saddam isn't a terrorist. People just want to group all of our enemies now as terrorists since 9/11. Nice little trick. Hate to tell you this, but what do you say about the U.S. funding and supporting all the folks we used to "terrorize" civilians from Nicarugua to Pakiston to Iraq? Or did you not know that we knew how brutal Saddam was and we still funded him and supported him?

Does that mean your gov't funds terrorists? Because that's what you are saying.

I'm surprise you think the difference between strapping abomb and blowing up a cafe or flying planes into the world trade center is the same as arresting people and beating them in jail. But hey, I guess it makes it easy to make your world go round.

 

i could not have said it any better !

 

Thank you, no.

The vast majority of the people attacking us in Iraq are not al Queda. Do you think the most effective tactic to get the US military to remain in Iraq is roadside bombs? That is nonsensical. Obviously the point of attacking American soldiers in Iraq is to attempt to kill enough that they will drive the Americans out. That was the enemy I was referring to, the one's that are fighting us in Iraq, not some nebulous organization that does some undefined activities in Iraq and launched an attack against the US six years ago.

There are rules against paying athletes to play for a college. You cannot get around these rules by paying the family of the player instead. Likewise, you cannot get around being a state sponsor of terror by paying the family of a suicide bomber instead of the (deceased) suicide bomber himself. It is sad that someone would even try to make this argument. It would be a far more appropriate argument against Israeli bulldozing of the homes of the families of suicide bombers, the argument being that you shouldn't punish the family for the action of the individual (though I would disagree with that argument as well).

I think it both strengthens the US democracy and helps our enemies. You are welcome to your opinion though.

I have made no suggestion that efforts be taken to curtail criticism of the government, and in fact have said the opposite. Does recognizing that speech should be protected always mean that the speech cannot be harmful to any US interests in your world view, because that seems like a gross oversimplification to me.

There is probably some veracity to that line of thinking as well. Certainly, due to the state of our military we are less able to commit to another war while we have the current forces deployed in Iraq. Also, several thousand American troops have died, which is certainly a grave injury to their families and friends, if not necessarily to the nation as a whole.

The US also sponsored terrorists, and it was no more right when we did it than when Saddam did it. That does not mean that Saddam is not a terrorist, nor does it excuse his behavior. Does the US government now fund terrorist? Maybe, if the Jundullah rumors are to be believed then yes, though the group claims to have no ties to the US, and even the ABC news story linking them to the US says that we are not funding them.

If your impression of the extent of Saddam's terrorist activities is arresting and beating people, you could not be more wrong. Inside Iraq he routinely killed those that opposed him, including gassing the Kurds on a massive scale. Outside of Iraq he was a sponsor of terrorist attacks against Israel (the very same strapping on a bomb and blowing up a cafe that you are trying to contrast him with). To argue that Saddam was not a terrorist would be an act of futility.

 

I would have to agree with mc mark on his remark to your post above.

So we are in Iraq because........???

 

I would have to decline your proposition as well.

For starters (and this is by no means the only or even necessarily the best reason), how about we are responsible for the anarchy that exists there and thus it is our responsibility to stabilize the country before we leave.

 

By mentioning that anarchy exists you just helped the enemy.

ENEMY HELPER

 

We have to be joking here?

 

it's a damn good thing that StupidMonkey and his ilk are in the minority. there is still hope for the american way of life.

 

the enemy is probably reading this thread, and the fact that you think this is a joke only emboldens them. why do you hate america and freedom?

 

So those are the readers who keep posting we should trade TMac and Yao.

 

it's too bad that the majority of americans are libs.

 

I didn't realize that 70% of America were liberals.

 

Yet another example of how delusional you have become.

 

You just emboldened Al Qaeda by overexaggerating its power.

ANOTHER ENEMY HELPER IDENTIFIED

 

i didn't either until some twat moved the goalposts

 

70% of americans are "liberals".

more and more you guys remind me of hitler circa march, 1945. screaming about how the german people have failed you and moving around non-existent batallions on a map.


Goebbels' 1945 Speech on Hitler's 56th Birthday (4/20/45)

If it is manly and German as Führer of a great and brave people to depend wholly on oneself in this struggle, relying on one's own own strength and certainty as well as the help of god in the face of an enemy who threatens with overwhelming numbers, to fight rather than to capitulate, then it is just as manly and German for a people to follow such a Führer, unconditionally and loyally, without excuse or reservation, to shake off all feelings of weakness and uncertainty, to trust in the good star that is above him and us all. This is all the more true when that star at times is covered by a black cloud. Misfortune must not make us cowardly, but rather resistant, never giving a mocking watching world the appearance of wavering. Rather than hoisting the white flag of surrender that the enemy expects, raise the old swastika banner of a fanatic and wild resistance, renewing the oath that we swore so often in the happy and safe days of peace, thanking god again and again that he gave us a true leader for these terrible times, feeling bound in our hearts to his sorrows and trials, thus showing the enemy world that they can wound but not kill us, that they can beat us bloody but not force us down, torture us, but not demoralize us!...

If the world still lives, and not only our world but the rest of it as well, whom has it to thank other than the Führer? It may defame and slander him today, persecuting him with its base hatred, but it will have to revise this standpoint or bitterly regret it! He is the core of resistance to the collapse of the world. He is Germany's bravest heart and our people's most passionate will. I permit myself to make a judgment that must be made today: If the nation still breaths, if it still has the chance of victory, if there is still an escape from the deadly danger it faces — it is thanks to him. He is steadfastness itself. I have never seen him fail or falter, or weaken or tire. He will go his way to the end, and there awaits not the end of his people, but rather a new and happy beginning to an era in which Germandom will flourish as never before.

Listen, Germans! Millions of people look to this man from every land on the earth, still doubting and questioning whether he knows the way out of the great misfortune that has befallen the world. He will show the peoples that way, but we look to him full of hope and with a deep, unshakable faith. We stand behind him with fortitude and courage: soldier and civilian, man, woman and child — a people determined to do all to defend its life and honor. He may look his enemies in the eye, for we promise him that he does not need to look behind him. We will not waver or weaken. We will never desert him, no matter how desperate and dangerous the hour. We stand with him, as he stands with us — in Germanic loyalty as we have sworn, as we shall fulfill. We do not need to tell him, for he knows and must know: Führer command! — We will follow! We feel him in us and around us. God give him strength and health and preserve him from every danger. We will do the rest.

Our misfortune has made us mature, but not robbed us of our character. Germany is still the land of loyalty. It will celebrate its greatest triumphs in the midst of danger. Never will history record that in these days a people deserted its Führer or a Führer deserted his people. And that is victory. We have often wished the Führer in happy times our best on this evening. Today in the midst of suffering and danger, our greeting is much deeper and more profound. May he remain what he is to us and always was — Our Hitler!

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/unser45.htm

"Never will history record that in these days a people deserted its Führer or a Führer deserted his people. And that is victory."

this is pretty much how bush supporters now define "victory" as well!