I lack a belief in any god, but because it's impossible to prove that one doesn't exist, I don't really hold it against people to have a somewhat general notion that "something is out there". That's innocent enough, as it doesn't generally encroach on the rights and well being of other people. That said, if you actually buy what organized religion is selling, you're the one who needs saving, in my opinion. Not the two dudes giving it to each other in the privacy of their own home.
Actually.... The bible never explicitly states that a man should only have one wife. There are a few times when it implies that a man should have one wife, and there are many other times when it mentions prominent biblical figures who had multiple wives. And on a related note... even if a man is to have only one wife, there are many instances in the bible of other prominent biblical figures who had concubines, and nowhere does it state that men shouldn't have concubines. Here's a good example of kooky scripture: 1 Corinthians 7: 2 "But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband."Now that may seem pretty straightforward, right? Well, just wait a second, here. Let's keep reading that section.... 1 Corinthians 7: 4-6 "The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command."Whoa! We're supposed to give it up for our spouse whenever they want it! Wow! ... and the, at the end, it says it's not a commandment, but a concession?!?! In other words, "It'd be nice if you did this, buy you don't really have to." Then again, you might want to follow what Job said: Job 31: 9 - 12 “If my heart has been enticed by a woman, or if I have lurked at my neighbor’s door, then may my wife grind another man’s grain, and may other men sleep with her. For that would have been wicked, a sin to be judged. It is a fire that burns to Destruction; it would have uprooted my harvest."
Before this goes to the D&D, where I no longer post, let me get a word in. Homosexuality is neither a sin nor a transgression. It is a natural act of love or lust between children of God (whether you believe in him or not), which occurs in multiple species. Those relying on Leviticus would disappear in a flash if half the other ridiculous **** in that book was posted here, just like they do every time it is. Also, as others have noted, Jesus never said word one about this. But he did allegedly (in other words, according to the Bible) say it would be virtually impossible for a rich man to enter Heaven. Um, Joel?
it is what it is. if you ask what the Bible says about homosexuality, the answer is that it is a sin. people have the right to their opinion either way. i think both sides of the argument pass judgement on each other. it shouldnt be that way. but thats the world we live in.
Thats because..just like the Bible - man tends to bring his own biases and opinions into the mindset when interpreting Gods word. You're absolutely right, if Homosexuality is a sin, it should NOT be elevated above any other. I personally don't believe it is a sin. I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God, written down by man, and including many of mans politics and values of the time. This also includes mans limited world-view at the time. After all, the Bible says a rabbit chews its cud..but we know for a fact that Rabbits don't have Cuds - but at the time the Bible was written down, people thought that Rabbits did have Cuds. Plus, remember that the Bible has been re-translated several times..each time losing some meanings here and there..and we have to keep that in consideration when reading it. It is important to read the overall messages in the bible, and not get too caught up in scriptures taken out of context, or words attributed to God & Jesus that were actually said by a character. Unfortunately, this seems to happen a LOT.
Dude, OK. Let's leave religion aside. It's a POOP exit. That's it. Isn't it? Man, I'm trying to keep this as clear as possible... it's not an entry place. Send this to the D&D, mods, please.
Anyone every think about getting a great politician guy like Osteen and applying Christian concepts to a multi-level marketing (hybrid pyramid) sales model? Structure it around events (with top religious speakers), interactive breakout sessions, and also sell little trinkets like bibles and crosses? Is that around? THATS an idea. Successful MLM's thrive on cult-like behavior.
Interestingly, a guy who used to identify himself as gay and now doesn't (married with kids) just came to talk at our church this past weekend. He still has some attraction to guys but he says he fights those although it's a struggle at times. He's an evangelical who in his words "loves gays" and seeks to extend the Gospel to them and to educate the church. His message to evangelicals is that to judge a homosexual as lesser is hypocrisy since we have the same sins (as some people have wisely pointed out earlier in the thread) and that we need to take a close look at our own lives to see where we should repent. He talked a lot about how Jesus made a point to hang out with those many others rejected. I thought a good point he brought up was that a lot of evangelicals are silent on this issue so the public's only understanding of our perspective are radicals like Westboro Baptist. This is his organization's site if you're interested. Btw, I still consider this (and what it sounds like Joel said) as "hardcore" Christianity in that it isn't watered down and is true to the text which says that it's a sin that requires repentance/turning to Jesus, side by side with the truth that no one can hypocritically condemn others (Rom 2:1-4). Surprised no one has mentioned how homosexuality is in the New Testament in clear terms in Romans 1 (note the list of sins that follow the bolded part which are also clearly condemned):
This line of thinking is the saddest part of the influence of organized religion and how it screws people up. That guy did not 'used to' be gay. He is gay. He is living a lie. It is unfair to his wife, his children and himself. And he is visiting the horrors of living a shameful, self-hating life on others, compounding the problem. You have no idea how many suicides result from the self-loathing that comes from the idea that gays should repress who they are to "please God." In no more than 50 years, organizations that try to "save" people from their own homosexuality will be considered the most backwards, archaic and sad examples of a terrible era in our history that went on far too long.
I've talked to a few just last year. People aren't born gay. I'm not debating. In this country nurture beats nature for the majority.
The penis doesn't clean plaque either but I sure enjoy trying to clean their mouth with it. It's sodomy too though.
Well, he once identified himself as gay and now doesn't. This is him talking about himself, not me. He went through the repression stage you describe and pushed down the feelings for a tortuous time, came out for around 5 years and felt a huge sense of relief and freedom, but later found that that still wasn't satisfying and now deals with his feelings without repressing them, instead being very open about them, choosing to identify himself first as a follower of Christ. His wife and children know everything about his past and accept it. His organization campaigns to alert people to stop gay suicides especially in light of the recent surge, and he talked at length about some of the sad stories of those who took their lives. I know you probably think he could help gays better in other ways apart from religion, but he really pours his life into caring for them and waking up the church to stop judging and start loving (doesn't mean converting). Having heard this, I perceive my own judgmentalism more clearly and desire to care more whereas before I would much rather just sit in my little bubble with everyone else who's just like me. If you have questions, you could communicate directly with him if you would like via contact info on the website.
is that it? what about a homosexual man who practices celibacy? and the rule for women? is that as clear as possible? it's not about sex, it's about human attraction towards one another. and it certainly not about religion.
the man is still gay. that is his natural tendency. but he must have found something in christianity to be able to walk away from his natural tendency. Jesus summed up the Bible by saying 1) love God, 2) love your neighbors. i think every christian is found wanting on both commandments--especially with the second part bc christians are still humans (selfish and sinful by nature). hence this gay man gave his testimony to his fellow christians (yall are doing a ****ty job of loving the outcasts...) i think its presumptuous to say that his man is living a shameful, self hating life. it seems that he has recognized that he is gay but he has also accepted what the Bible says about homosexuality and has chosen the latter to be more important. That was his decision and he is living with it.
The only problem with this viewpoint is that it assumes that Christianity is simply a set of rules people adopt to live life. Here's the thing a lot of people miss: the bible doesn't say that a person has to first "fix" themselves before they can come to Christ. The gay man/woman does not have to "turn straight" as a requirement before they are accepted by God. On the contrary, God already accepts us just as we are, with all the natural tendencies we have, even if PEOPLE don't. Some of us may have strong tendencies to lie and manipulate people, just can't help it. Others may be kleptomaniacs. Others may have anger problems. As Christians we believe that God not only forgives us for what we do, but he also has the supernatural power to change us where it is impossible to change ourselves. We believe that as we grow as Christians through study of the bible and prayer, we are transformed continuously from our natural, sinful nature to the nature of Christ. So what he is saying is what is consistent with scripture. It is ridiculous for us to expect a homosexual to instantly stop being attracted to other men after receiving salvation, just as it is ridiculous for us to expect a man to magically stop being sexually attracted to women he's not married to because he's now a Christian. Nobody has the ability by themselves to overcome their natural desires and live up to God's lofty standards. That's why we have grace. It's a spiritual thing.
i totally agree. i was gonna mention what youve pointed out but didnt wanna get into it bc it could get into a theological conversation.
If it didn't count, they would leave it out of the ****ing book. Christians warship THE BIBLE. It's in the bible. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Olsen is taking an extremely progressive view of homosexuality in religion. Don't single them out any more than all the other 34034 sins. Don't go out of your way to judge them. THe bible calls it a sin. Don't get mad for people acknowledging it. It explicitly says that. Be happy that he doesn't want people to go out of their way to condemn homosexuals. Don't be mad at him when you should be mad at yourself for believing in the damn religion in the first place.
