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[ClutchFans] Saying goodbye to Adelman feels like the right move

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Clutch, Apr 19, 2011.

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  1. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Since when does "win now" not mean "win big." Everyone uses that term to mean win the ring. Les most definitely hired Adelman and JVG to win now ... as in win the ring.

    Les failed as much as anyone at winning now, because he hung onto Yao and TMac too long.

    Win NOW mean Win BIG. Les is just changing the meaning, because he knows he needs a different way of saying the same thing.
     
  2. dlite316

    dlite316 Member

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    Well said Easy. Really want to see what this group of young players can do next season under coach Adelman...
     
  3. dlite316

    dlite316 Member

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    Agree completely. One solid big away...and I really enjoyed watching Adelman's offence.
     
  4. conundrum

    conundrum Rookie

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    all this tells me is that les is in full tank mode, cast of unproven players + unproven coach = lottery picks, i expect it will be atleast 5 years before we compete for a ring again.
     
  5. Qball

    Qball Member

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    It means a coach that doesn't base his decisions on subjective observations such as...

    - "Player B is shown statistically to play better with Player C, but I think Player A should play because he is a harder worker"
    - "While statistics say that Player A is weak versus Nets, I think Player A is just in a shooting slump"

    Coaches are biased and will let non-basketball stuff interfere with their judgement.

    All I was saying is that either you have all 3 positions go with moneyball method or all 3 go with classic scouting. You can't have one focusing on statistics while other 2 are focusing on gut feelings and experience.
     
  6. solid

    solid Member

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    I agree. The Coach, the team, and the "plan" weren't compatible. Adelman is very "old school," was not on board for the Morey blueprint (which may or may not work). Didn't like moves, so he iced those involved in the moves. He would have played Battier forever. The team really couldn't afford the offensive liability he represented (check record and stats after the trade). Frankly I was never an Adelman fan, his in game management was always suspect to me. I liked his offensive system, but that was about it. Feels right, let's move on.
     
  7. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

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    Once again, Battier wasn't the problem. Nor was/is he the solution.

    The problem was Brooks and Hill primarily. Neither guy played worth a crap. We gave Brooks minutes and shots to Chase and we gave Battier's shots to Dragic and Lee. And we gave Hill's minutes and shots to Patterson, which should have been done much earlier.
     
  8. ashishduh

    ashishduh Member

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    Morey seems to disagree with you, per his "yes man" comment.

    Anyway, apparently Rick knows what he was doing, considering the lineups he gave big minutes to (besides the Hill starting lineup he was forced to play due to injuries) turned out to be a good lineup, he even found a great lineup with AB in it and played that lineup a lot.

    http://basketballvalue.com/teamunits.php?year=2010-2011&team=HOU
     
  9. DCkid

    DCkid Member

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    So you didn't like how he managed to get the Rockets to consistently overachieve during his tenure? Or you thought the Rockets should have had better records, and could have achieved that with a better coach?
     
  10. GMNot

    GMNot Member

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    Clutch, your take is, basically, a reasonable analysis (excepting the T-Will reference, IMHO) AND also provides a good rationale for those who want/have to be optimistic -- since we can't change what's happened. Rockets fans also care about the players and will follow the drama no matter.

    But, I have to say, OMR, your post makes the main point which can't be ignored, and which I alluded to in a post in the "Sticky" thread -- It's Les' team and for anyone to deny that it appears he tends to live in "Jerry Jones territory" (as The Chosen One pointed out) would be ostrich-like. So does Mark Cuban. It doesn't mean Les is wrong. But it also doesn't mean his knowledge of BB is wiser than a coach like RA. Passionate owners, like LA, Cuban and JJ, can't help themselves sometimes stepping over the line and trumping a coaches judgment. There is the rare instance of Greg Popovich being a GM and then also becoming the head coach. And with the right mix of players San Antonio has won 4 championships. But I would submit that it is a rarity.

    I also agree with your (OMR) observations about T-Will and Thabeet. I would never call a person crap, but, I think, you were referring to their BB acumen rather than their worth as persons. T-Will just did not demonstrate a team mentality when on the court. Doesn't mean he can't or won't develop one, but since the team was in the playoff hunt, no coach in his right mind would sacrifice fighting for a playoff spot, deferring to player development, at that juncture. I think that deficiency in T-Will's game made RA too uncomfortable with leaving him on the court regularly and for long stretches.

    One other reality that can provide a context for the desire of all concerned... Out of the 30 teams in the NBA how many have won championships? Winning a championship (despite what 3-peats would imply) is more like the alignment of the planets in some fairy tale. It just doesn't happen in a logical manner. So many details have to converge. And, all championship coaches would tell you that "luck," whatever that is, plays a big part. (The first "luck" they usually refer to is a lack of injuries, for instance. The Rockets have been more than unlucky on that count.) Analytics may hint at intangibles that make a player special but in the end the coach is integral to helping unlock that potential and putting all the pieces together. I think Adelman has proved that over a career.

    I was a bit sorry, to see mentioned in another thread, that Elston Turner had removed himself for consideration. I don't know why, since I have not read anything else about it. But based on my reasoning in my other post, I would agree, that, now, Sigma would provide the best continuity going forward. I think he would retain RA's offense. It works well.

    If only the 3 players in this "reality show" could have found a way to work together, I think the chances for success would be more likely going forward. Just my gut feeling, of course.

    At this point, no one, not even DM with his analytics approach can guarantee a championship. It may happen but it will be that special confluence of all the "details", including a good coach, that will be the reason. That's a maddening reality of forks in the road. You never know what would have happened had you taken the other road.
     
  11. ashishduh

    ashishduh Member

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    lol, you know very little about basketball if you think Williams or Thabeet deserved playing time.

    Btw I "checked the stats" and it seems that the starting lineup played almost exactly the same after the deadline despite an easier schedule.

    http://basketballvalue.com/teamunits.php?year=2010-2011&team=HOU

    Check the top two lineups +/-.
     
  12. Clutch

    Clutch Administrator
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    I'm travelling all day and can't reply much until later but there are some great posts/points made in here... a lot I want to respond to.

    Without knowing what the future held, it helped the Rockets competitor is what I'm mainly getting at... it helped them fill a position of need and they ultimately beat out the Rockets for the playoffs. If Morey had win-now as his primary goal, he's got to get the team in the playoffs, and part of that is not helping your rivals in the stretch run.

    As far as the Rockets go, you're right -- they did end up playing better after the trades, but in my opinion, if you look at it from the time those deals were made, I'd say they were not made with that goal in mind (to improve our team immediately). Certainly Adelman wasn't happy with them. Both deals came with first rounders attached. The Rockets did not intend to keep Battier or Brooks and got what they could. I think getting Brooks' misfires out of the lineup was enough to help the current team, but were the moves designed to give Adelman help? He could have benched Shane and Aaron and gotten nearly the same boost (no offense to Goran Dragic).
     
  13. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

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    Exactly.

    What helped us win the most was getting Brooks shooting and ball domination out of the lineup. The next thing that helped us most was getting Hill's minutes down and getting Patterson's minutes up. I suspect if we had kept Shane and simply benched Brooks for Lee or traded Brooks for Dragic and gave Dragic and Lee Brooks minutes that we would have actually been better than we finished. Having Shane here instead of in Memphis would have netted us a couple wins and cost Memphis a couple wins.

    Morey traded Shane because he was expiring and Morey wanted to maximize his "assets" for the future. He got at least an expiring contract, a future first round pick, and a $7.354 TPE by trading SHane. It cost us going to the playoffs this season and losing in the first round.
     
  14. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    The FO's line after the trades was that they were pushing for the playoffs. A lot of posters even theorized that getting rid of Brooks and Battier were Morey's way to force Adelman to play the "right" players.

    Now the story line has changed. It's the so-called "one step back for two steps forward" line. From hindsight, the moves were clearly not for pushing the playoffs. It was just PR spin, which I don't blame them. It's just funny how many people actually believed it, simply because Adelman and the players refused to give up. But hey, these guys have done their job well. Let get rid of them and "win big"!
     
  15. Qball

    Qball Member

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    How are you equating a coach believing in the same system as the GM to the coach being a "yes man"? You think Obama should have Perry as his VP when he runs again?
     
  16. mylilpony

    mylilpony Member

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    how does anyone not recognize that this is all lebron's fault?
     
  17. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    I'm late to the party, but I basically agree. (Caveat: I don't blame him at all for not playing T-Will more than he has.) Here's my thinking: Adelman would probably be the best coach for the Rockets next year, and maybe the next, but he's not going to coach into his 70s, and he has to be thinking ahead to retirement. The Rockets need a coach with a long-term view, that will be around longer than the young players on the roster, if successful.

    My pick for a replacement would still be Brad Stevens, if you can talk him into it.
     
  18. RocketsPimp

    RocketsPimp Member

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    So we got rid of a coach that quite likely got more out of his players than any other coach in the league so that we can get a yes-man that will play guys like T-Will and Thabeet in hopes that they develop over the next few years so we can "win-big"?

    Sorry, but I believe they are going about it all wrong (still).
     
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