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[ClutchFans] Renting Carmelo

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by BimaThug, Nov 1, 2010.

  1. Ramathorn006

    Ramathorn006 Contributing Member

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    Ron Artest was a rental and he took us to the second round.

    I wouldnt mind Melo as a rental, who knows where he can take us.
     
  2. rockets934life

    rockets934life Contributing Member

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    Wrong context, I'd make the move but just wouldn't include Bud. The "even if we take the trophy" statement was more toward his desire to play in NY then what I believe our chances are of winning a title. My fault for not being more clear.

    I'm all for renting Melo because of the small window Yao provides and I'd mortgage some of our future but Bud is not someone I'd let go of so easily. I believe even with Melo, we are still underdogs to LAL, Miami, Boston and Orlando.
     
  3. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    One of my fondest memories as an Astros fan (and I've gone to dozens of games over the years, beginning with Colt Stadium) was watching this dude pitch from some incredible seats in Houston. Awesome simply doesn't do it justice. I could see a possible rental. Things are seriously out of whack right now. Of course, you'd hope to keep him.
     
  4. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Member

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    Nah!! Wouldn't do it.
     
  5. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    Yes, the Knixies likely would be. However, Amare + Melo + little does not equate to a Miami challenge. The key for the Knixies IMHO would be to do at least as well with their roster as Riles did with his after the Miami Thrice came about.

    Miami's non-Big III rotation is probably better than today's Knixies rotation after Amare.
     
  6. cyntil8ing

    cyntil8ing Member

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    Yeah, I'd like to have Melo here if not for the obvious reasons, then at the very least he'd be insurance against Yao. It'll keep the Rocks on the map with other big name players and continue the momentum going forward a contending team.

    While the suggestion of BT sounds like an opportunity, the odds don't look good as a gamble for the the Rockets. I can't imagine that Morey hasn't made a play on this opportunity with everything that the organization has to offer and still come out without a trade. We quite possibily have the best package to offer, or competitve at the very least, because the Nuggets know that they won't be getting anything commensurate in value anyway. The obvious reason would probably be that Melo's really set on NY.

    The upsides are easy to measure but the downsides include losing proven ( I use that word loosely) assets and a city that just lost another superstar. How much of a hit would the city take if that were to happen as a viable destination?

    I suggest that the Rocks just inject themselves into the mix before a deal goes down. Wherever Melo ends up going, there's sure to be other valuable players going into the mix. We can influence which players actually go into the mix and where while Melo still gets to go to NY. I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of a 3 or 4 way trade. I'd go as far as suggesting that the rockets be the catalyst for the whole thing. Melo has enough value to shake things up in the league as we've seen through that 4 way trade that fell through.

    In one fell swoop, we can get value for our assets and trim down what may be a bloated roster. The question then becomes, which player/s do we want and how do we manipulate the situation to get that player/s? To me, this seems more plausible. The trade is almost sure to happen, why not capitalize on that?
     
  7. moestavern19

    moestavern19 Member

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    Excellent article.

    I know a lot of fans don't like to think about mortgaging the future for a guy who might only give you 30 games and then bail, but at the same time this is a win now league and Houston has the assets to turn a mediocre team into an above average team.

    The Rockets need a 4th quarter finisher, a closer. Yao can't be that guy.

    Seems almost a foregone conclusion now that Morey will move his chips in at the deadline, you never know who will become available by then.
     
  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    I keep hearing that from a lot of people, without a lot of thought about whether those chips are worth anything or the people being traded want to come here etc.

    I think Morey would LIKE to make a trade, but call me unconvinced that he will be able to get one that makes any significant improvement as in a star player.

    DD
     
  9. Artie_Fufkin

    Artie_Fufkin Member

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    Very interesting.. After reading the thread, I've warmed to the idea. As mentioned before, losing Bud would be tough.

    As for the Randy Johnson situation, my favorite memories involved him in the batter's box.
     
  10. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    I have to ask what are you waiting for by keeping them?

    Most of the analysts and posters here have gauged this team as being short a superstar closer, an near requirement to contend and win a title. Winning a title would be amazing, but it is currently a pipedream.

    We have a lot of great talent and assets on the team that everyone mentions can be used for trades, but who is actually available? What superstar players/closers in the next 2-3 years will be at the end of their contract or legitimately try to force a trade?

    Steve Nash, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, & Ricky Rubio.

    Now there are many other star players/closers (or potential future star players) but do you really think Dirk, OJ Mayo, Dwight Howard, Wade, Lebron, Bosh, Rose, Brandon Roy, Rajon Rondo, Kevin Durant, Brook Lopez, Blake Griffin, Brandon Jennings, Tyreke Evans, Stephen Curry, Monte Ellis, John Wall, Demarcus Cousins, Evan Turner and Granger (according to some) are going to leave their current teams in that time span (1-3 years)? That is a long time, but most of those teams are trying build around those players right now, are already contenders, or the players are not unhappy.

    Looking at the 5 options I mentioned above. Given what we have heard the past few months, there is a low chance Anthony or Paul choose to want to be in Houston long term which means they would at worst be rentals. Plus the Hornets are playing well right now, so he would not even be available until next year at the earliest.

    I could possibly see Deron leaving, but that team is still a playoff team for now and unless Sloan leaves for some reason are they fall apart, he probably stays. Again though, this is at least 2 years in the future.

    Nash is a great closer but as many have already pointed out, his defense is wanting. It could be questioned (at his current age/usage) how much an upgrade he is over Brooks/Lowry. Also, he is basically in 1 year to 2 year window due to that age and health.

    Only other option would be to get the star player in the draft by trading up.
    The other team would then have to have underperformed due to injuries or chemistry and wants role players because they already have cornerstones.

    Any such move of this nature takes the Rockets out of the 1-2 year timescale. Some of our players will be past their primes by then, and many of our younger players may have played themselves to pay raises the Rockets cannot afford. Trading for Rubio would essentially be the same as trading up in the draft in this respect.

    If that is the only way to get the star player and be a true contender on the Rockets, then keeping the status quo would almost assuredly relegate the Rockets to a 1-3 year span of being playoff teams that are dangerous but never true contenders. While it is true that many fans would easily take that over how most of the past 12 years resulted, in no way should that be seen as the ultimate goal of the season. All that option would do is postpone the rebuilding process a number of years.

    So basically what I am saying that this team has so many assets right now, and most of them have time limits on them. To truly have a chance to win in this window (1-3 years) at all, the Rockets have to take the risk of trading for an old (fragile?) Nash that may not be an upgrade or a Paul or Carmelo that may be a rental.

    It is by no means the safe bet, but it is very likely the only way this Rockets team can win a title, even if the opportunity lasts for only 1 season.
     
  11. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    Ok say we trade Bud and Hill and a pick for the guy, then we don't win a ring, and he bolts.

    We now are much much worse, and we have no SF at all.....

    Sorry, I think that is a big step backwards as a franchise.

    DD
     
  12. mFt82

    mFt82 Member

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    Acquiring Melo would do NOTHING to help the Rockets' defense.
     
  13. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    Yeah, but he didn't cost us anything......

    This is completely different.

    DD
     
  14. spookyoldtree

    spookyoldtree Member

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    If you include AB in the deal, it would be another story.
     
  15. rockets934life

    rockets934life Contributing Member

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    I do know one thing, Melo is going to NY so the Rox are better served to get rid of 2011 first rd pick ASAP. Now does that increase it's value to Denver if they do decide to move him here? Lets say we move Hill, Battier, Jeffries and the 2011 #1 for 30 games and a playoff run, would anyone be willing to surrender something better then Hill, a lotto pick and 13.5 million in potential cap space for such a rental? NY would be the only team willing to give up SERIOUS assets without an extension because they know he is re-signing there so who else would or could give up so much without an assurance?
     
  16. Xerobull

    Xerobull Salve Dicit Mater Tua
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    Fantastic writup, BT. Nice work.
     
  17. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    True, but. Yes, but.

    Several teams feel they are as well positioned to do the same - the Blazers and Nyets. Even the Knixies and Pistons. Clips (they'd blow it) and Wolves.

    It will take good fortune through a proactive approach to accomplish 'the' deal. Historically DM the GM likes to play brinksmanship, pushing the deadline's boundaries. IMHO DM the GM needs to strike preemptively this time.
     
  18. No Chance

    No Chance Contributing Member

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    I was thinking that obtaining Erica Dampier was more then just Yao insurance. With E Dampier the Rockets could afford to include Hill or Chuck in a trade.

    When does Chucks contract expire?

    Can and should we include our TE in the deal?
     
  19. Stevierebel

    Stevierebel Contributing Member

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    Barring a complete overhaul of the CBA and free agency, this is the most important part of the article... Every major free agent leaves via sign and trade. If he is a rental, we still get something in a return on his departure. He'd need a sign and trade to get the money he'd want.

    And as far as giving up Hill and Budinger... Would hurt if Budinger gets better. I see him being a solid role player/6th man unless he starts with a true pg who can distribute and manage the game without kicking the ball out of bounds.

    I don't have hopes that Hill will reach his full potential. And it's not like he isn't available now.

    Trade Exception could help fill in gap at SF.
     
  20. BimaThug

    BimaThug Resident Capologist
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    As far as what the Rockets would be lacking if Melo bolts, it really just boils down to the SF position (Battier and Budinger) along with the pick. With the prospect of being able to play major minutes alongside (potentially) Brooks, Martin, Scola and Yao, I would think that SOMEONE would be willing to sign with Houston as a free agent SF next summer. Think something along the lines of a Q-Rich signing with Orlando. Nothing great. But not some scrub at least. In the alternative, the Rockets could use the huge trade exception to acquire a good SF from a team in salary-dump mode.

    With the Rockets still having a PF rotation of Luis Scola, Chuck Hayes and Patrick Patterson, I really don't think the team will be "depleted" at the PF position with the losses of Hill and Jeffries.

    And with multiple first rounders in 2012, along with what might be a high second rounder in 2011 (the Rockets have the right to swap second round picks with the Clippers, courtesy of the Steve Novak trade a couple years back), Morey has the ammunition to acquire a 2011 first round pick and/or to simply take a decent player in the second round and then wait for 2012 to make a bigger draft pick move.

    DD, I agree that losing Bud would hurt. Heck, I'm not even saying that I'd do that trade! But again, you've got to give something to get something. Even a rental of Carmelo Anthony has considerable value, plus there's still the chance of re-signing him and/or getting assets for him in a sign-and-trade deal.

    My point is that it is not a clear-cut decision. Even if it involves your boy C-Bud. ;)
     
    #60 BimaThug, Nov 1, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2010

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