[ClutchFans] Podcast - The Dwight Howard Trade Aftermath

I hope all the players on the squad proves you guys wrong and wins the championship this year

 

Is anyone besides me completely convinced Stern put his nose in this (promised a #1 or #2 to Orlando next year). I'd say either or because Noels/Shabazz seem like either could become great.

That's maybe just me believing it's a conspiracy.

After hearing the podcast, even the WORST Rocket's offer possible:
- Picks (adv Rockets): Rocket's first rounder, Toronto's pick, + MAYBE Dallas's pick vs. 3 protected picks that are going to be in the 20s and not for a few years.

- Players (imo Rockets are the better deal, but clearly orlando disagrees, but this could easily be a push): Jones/white, Morris/ppat vs the random group that Orlando got. This one is debatable because Al Harrington is in this group being a bad contract. Maybe Orlando liked the other players better, but I have trouble believing Morey wouldn't say fine take 3 of Jones, White, Morris, and Ppat and get this trade done. It seems to me that would give at worst a push on this.

- Cap Relief (adv Rockets): Rockets take back at least Jrich + MAYBE 1 more vs Duhon.

Seems like Stern is sticking his nose in it. Kobe vs Lebron = BIG BUCKS. Kobe is running out of years, so this helps. It imo takes the Spurs out of any chance of competing, so worst case it's OKC vs Miami part 2, best case LA vs Miami.

 

Why do noobs feel the need to post the whole damn quote??

 

Lin is being paid, as was said, to offer a face to the franchise during this faceless time. Good signing, not great. For many reasons the Dragon's fly to Phoenix resonates so very poorly.

BTW - - was Phx the only team willing to make that specific offer to Goran? Yes, I know, it just takes one.

 

There is no evidence that we can point to that shows that Morey wanted Bynum. There is evidence we can point to that shows that Morey didn't want Bynum.

 

Great podcast.

Lin is a steal at that price. He's already similar or even better than Dragic/Lowry last year(better overall/peak PER), and he's the only one out of those three to consistently take over game in clutch time(one of top PER in 4th quarter and even better in last 5 minutes league wise). And he's the youngest with best upside.

Draft picks for us are better assets than for most teams, because Morey has proved he's the best of the business in picking the right players. IMO we have four rookies worth top10 picks or even top5(for some) in an ordinary draft. Some teams would need a decade of tanking to get picks and actually rightfully pick those prospects. and that's the beauty of good player evaluation. Just think about Spurs in the last decade - they essentially get top3 picks for Manu/Parker, and top5 for Leonard, top10 for Blair without ever tanking.

 

Not me. Unless Orlando can find a way to get rid of Nelson/Turkaglo/Davis/Afflalo/Harrington/Vucevic/Reddick with taking nothing back in return that amounts to wins on the basketball court, then I believe they are a team very much like the Rockets of the past two seasons, possibly slightly better, and in the Eastern Conference.

I think they are going to be a 45 win team, and might not even be in the lottery. If they end up as the 9th seed with the 14th pick, and they win the lottery then we can talk about the Stern rigging the draft lottery. People seem to think that the Magic are going to be much worse then they really are.

 

Great podcast. Thanks.

I think the team is going to be a lot of fun to watch but they will certainly be one of the 10 worst teams in the league as far as won / loss record IMO. Having said that, I think DM has done a masterful job of setting the team up for the future. The Rockets have a very good chance at 2 top ten picks next summer to go along with Sergio Llull if the decide to bring him over.

 

I don't think that's the only reason the poison pill worked. It's also because the team with the matching rights would be looking at serious luxury tax in 2-3 years. That means teams well over the cap with contracts extending out when the penalty really kicks in. I think if Eric Gordon were given a poison pill contract and NOLA were way over the cap without much room to off load contracts in the next couple years, they wouldn't have matched so quickly and maybe not at all.

I think the poison pill only works with teams in luxury tax hell in 2 years without the cash flow to offset the cost (LA).

I wonder what teams are way over the cap with max worthy RFA's coming up?? Those would be the ones to pick off IMO.

 

Exactly.....

 

Or maybe, just maybe, the contract is a 3-year deal because the Rockets don't like giving out guaranteed deals of 4 years (under the new CBA) to anyone other than proven superstars? Dragic left because they wouldn't give him the fourth-year player option - I don't think the Rockets had a low opinion of his ability at all.

 

Do you really think Drajic would have signed here even if they offered the 4 year option... Drajic was gone regardless, he never forgot that Morey tried to get rid of him and the fact that he was a backup...

Now the one thing that Lin will do is bring exposure to the Rockets... now as a player Lin was over paid, but as a Marketing tool he was not. Lin will bring exposure and money back to the Rockets organization.

T_Man

 

He sure forgot that the Suns got rid of him

 

Absolutely, I do. Do you think Morey and McHale would've made the trips to Slovenia and build the extensive relationship they had with him, if he was "gone regardless"? Hell, his brother played for the Rockets' summer league team! The one thing I can promise you is that Goran had a terrific relationship with Rockets' brass, particularly McHale... and it greatly upset both sides that it didn't work out. Both expected it to as recently as late June, but when it came down to it, the Suns offered him an additional guaranteed year that the Rockets didn't. As with most situations in the NBA, it was about the money.

I also disagree that Lin was overpaid. He's a 23-year-old prospect that, in his first year with major playing time, had a PER of 20 as a starter and averaged roughly 18/8. Had more points and assists per 36 minutes than either Lowry or Dragic. Has a lot of promise. Strip away all the fanfare and hype, and look at the data. Most years, if a PG comes available with the resume of Jeremy Lin at his age... $8 million per for three years is an extremely reasonable deal, for basketball reasons.

 

I tend to agree with you for a few reasons. One is that Morey said that they did not over night lose their mind (concerning possible deals for Dwight and taking back bad deals), second is that the Rockets have never agreed to take back bad contracts, and is one of the reasons we never agreed to take Amare at the deadline a few years ago. Last, the Rockets have been reluctant to extend long term to injury prone players (look at Amare), so I do not think the Rockets were willing to break the bank and give up flexibility for Andrew Bynum.

 

i am not trying to say who is better. to me, the huge difference btw dragic and lin is the former piled up good stats on a bad team, like many fake superstars. do you still remember MJ (Mike James)? well, lin is different. he elevated all those bench players to another level as well as his own stats on a bad team until melo was back.

 

a very important point. However, it was all PnR and he had a 50+ 3 point shooter faced up at the outer rim waiting for the kickouts. This drew a lot of defensive attention away from the two-man game as defenders had to cheat away on Novak. Not to mention, Lin was running that PnR with Chandler And Amare, not one, but two of the very best in the league of running the pick and finishing the lobs at the rim.

Here, Lin will be in a different situation. We are very short on perimeter shooters and we have no one of Novak's ilk that can catch and fire out there at that incredible hit rate. Not to mention we've got two bigs in Asik and Motie who are inexperienced, and even with experience, I doubt they are as effective finishing up high on those lobs as Tyson/Amare.

That doesn't mean Lin won't do well here. Rather, I think our offense is going to be a work in progess with Motie probably getting the bulk of the catches off the picks. However, Motie is a different player. We are going to be running the pick and pop along with the pick and roll, no doubt to help exploit all Motie's offensive tools. We'll get better as the season rolls along.

But if you expect Lin to come out of the gates doing what he did in NY, better think again. We're just not equipped for that kind of effectiveness on the PnR just yet.

 

Lamb himself is more talented than any of the shooting guards Lin played with in NY. Motiejunas is also a very skilled big man. Kevin Martin can get you 20+ points every game. This will more than make up for Steve Novak's loss for Lin since apart from Novak almost every one on that Knicks team is a terrible shooter.

 

Talent is one thing. Skill and experience is another. I definitely like lamb's stroke. I think he'll be a better shooter from distance than Martin. But to compare either player to Novak catching and shooting, at this stage of each of their careers....not even close.

Motie is very skilled. I believe he'll develop into a big time player in his rookie season. But coming into the season, I just don't think he'll be able to get it going early enough to help Lin a lot initially. And Motie in no ways should even be compared to novak from the perimeter.

It's really simple. Just look at Novak's percentages and put that together with the fact that he has absolutely zero foot speed and cannot create any separation. The overwhelming (over 95%) of his 3 point attempts were catch-and-shoot attempts or a catch-upfake-single dribble-reset-shoot attempt. Novak is the best shooter in this league right now.

Steve Novak is undoubtedly the premier catch-and-shoot player in this league right now. I'm talking about just the catch-and-shoot skill. He's better than Durant on the catch-and-shoot and Durant is probably about the next best thing on the catch-and-shoot skill in the league.

 

On another note, the point was made in the podcast bout Asik having to handle a lot of defensive pressure because we lost a lot of good D on the perimeter in Lowry, Goran, Lee, etc. That's a legit point.

However, we are paying Asik to defend. It's his calling card. And we've still got good defense left on the team. Patterson is a stellar defender. Parsons is one of the best defenders in the league. And the wild card is Lin. Although probably not a good man defender, Lin is crazy smart. he knows when to cheat, when to break, how to clog the passing lanes. And he's very smart knowing when to let his man go and fade back to the other end for the easy one.

And I haven't even mentioned Jones and White. They are good defenders, especially on the PnR. And then it comes down to Martin and Lamb. We know what we got with Martin. But Lamb lacks one thing, weight. He's got good defensive skills. He's just light in the loafers right now.

We're going to play good D.