1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[ClutchFans] Jeremy Lin's Big Test

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by GBRocket, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Nubmonger

    Nubmonger Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    67
    I think you can sum up the difference in how people perceive Lin and Beverley in one word: expectations.

    Regardless of the legitimacy of the arguments, Lin's salary, past history, and huge personal fan-base make everyone expect tremendous numbers from him. If he doesn't perform to those high standards, then he's considered a failure.

    Beverley, on the other hand, is a no-name import from the Euro leagues who makes one of the lowest salaries on the team. As long as he isn't a completely incompetent abyss on the floor, then he's considered a success.
     
  2. gene18

    gene18 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    990
    Likes Received:
    23
    I am confused. What did Beverly do that was so outstanding. His defense as measured by PPP is equal to Lin's. (Synergy Sports). His has never been good generating assits, even in Europe. Almost all NBA starting PG' s have better numbers than Beverley. Lin's 3 PT. % was 33.9 Beverley's was 37. That's three more baskets per 100 attempt's for Beverley. However, Beverly took an exceedingly small number of shots behind the 3 pt. line. (96) . Lin took 257 3 pointers. As the # of shots taken goes up the FG% goes down. That is what happened to Harden last year.Bev's FG% was .418. Lin's was 44.1 last year. Beverley's 3 Pt % in the playoff's ,his best performance yet, was .33. His Playoff assits were below 3 per game although he averaged 33 minutes a game. He had 0 assits in the last game. Keep in mind that Beverley's playoff performance is generally considered his best outings.So I ask you why do you feel that Beverley would be a good replacement for Lin if Beverley repeats last years performance.
    I have seen every rocket game last year and Beverley looked to have a very limited skill set. During the summer league in Orlando the announcer was asked if Beverley would start instead of Lin as it was questioned if Lin could lead a championship team. The announcer said quickly and loudly said that Beverley is not even starting material, and could definately not lead a team to a championship.
     
  3. gene18

    gene18 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    990
    Likes Received:
    23
    Absolutely true.
     
  4. AVoiceInACrowd

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2013
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    20
    "Lin is the clear starter, but if he returns to his past struggles from the three-point line, commits too many turnovers or fails to gel with Dwight, it could lead to him being replaced in the starting lineup in favor of Patrick Beverley, who played well last year as Lin’s backup. Though Beverley’s minutes constitute a smaller sample size (710 minutes), the Rockets as a team posted a 98.8 Defensive Rating when he was on the floor (compared to 104.0 with Lin), a ranking that would be good enough to be third best defense in the league. To add to that, there was almost no dip offensively (106.4 Offensive Rating with Lin on the floor, 106.1 with Beverley)."

    Actually, it's not damning at all. Like most stats, Off. and Def. efficiency needs to be looked at in context. It reflects the impact that all 10 players have on the game. And so there is a difference between starting and coming off the bench. Let's look at some of the other rockets starters and their subs.

    Parsons: Off-105.8 Def-103.2
    Delfino: Off-108.7 Def-102.5

    Harden: Off-107.1 Def-104.4
    Anderson: Off-112.8 Def-101

    By these numbers, James Anderson was Houston's best player.

    Stats always need to be put into context. I'll admit I dislike PER. I think it's useless in and of itself. Usage is directly related to PER (the more you shoot, the higher your PER, even if you shoot a low percentage).

    New York Lin : Usage- #6 PER- #9

    Houston Lin: Usage- #38 PER- #35

    If any other starting pg (except Chalmers) were to join Houston, they would find their Usage and PER dropping from their previous year. Harden is just that good.

    Alright, TO ratios is probably the least useful stat by itself. Yes, Lin had a high TO ratio. But, Rondo and Rubio had worse TO ratios and Nash wasn't too far behind. Three pgs considered pretty good with the ball.:rolleyes:

    There were too many stats without context for me to enjoy the article. I agree that if Lin is shooting 37% fg and 26% 3pts for the first 20 games (the way he did in October of last year) and the team is struggling, " it could lead to him being replaced in the starting lineup". But, the same could be said for Parsons cause that was some bad shooting.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. kcd

    kcd Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    12
    Not really, it's very much like a lot of the Bleacher Report articles.
     
  6. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,914
    Great summary.

    He is a poor fit but hopefully he improved his game over the offseason.
     
  7. kcd

    kcd Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    12

    Yeah, where are all the articles about Harden putting more effort in defense and also shooting better than just half the year. Or Howard needing to be like when he was playing in his earlier years with the Magic. They're the ones getting the max contracts.
     
  8. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,914
    Harden and Howard get more of pass since they are superstars and elite in certain aspects of the game.

    Since Lin is an overpaid complimentary piece with a spot light on him, there is more pressure on him to play better and adapt to his role on the team.
     
  9. kcd

    kcd Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    12

    That's just double standard and unfair. They shouldn't be held to a lesser degree than others on the team. Actually, they should be held to higher degree. And Lin is not overpaid based on average pay rate for starting pgs.
     
  10. GoRox2013

    GoRox2013 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,981
    Likes Received:
    84
    I'd love to see us somehow pull off a trade for Jameer Nelson for Lin
     
  11. Phillycheese

    Phillycheese Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    20
    Old, slow and can,t penetrate. Not that good a shooter. No thanks, unless you're a Magic fan.
     
  12. raskol

    raskol Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,932
    Likes Received:
    162
    If Lin playing a sixth man role is:

    A) better for our team
    B) not an attempt by most haters to just bury Lin there not as strategy,

    I don't think it's the worst idea on the world but..
    I believe personally that Lin will be most effective with Howard and as a starter and that most (not all) of the haters just don't want Lin to start irrelevant of his performance. Therefore, I would not suggest benching Lin unless he plays clearly worse than before or if Beverley proves that his skillset is better than Lin's. Bevs gonna be good, I feel that in my gut. I just believe Lin is better. Not just individually but for our team. Good article.
     
  13. ttdestroyer

    ttdestroyer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    Messages:
    401
    Likes Received:
    9
    Almost October what is this 6th man rehash. He's not going to open the season as the 6th.
     
  14. AVoiceInACrowd

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2013
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    20
    It's what I call the head up the ass syndrome. Some people are so obsessed with Lin, either good or bad. They put more importance on him then there actually is.

    Should Houston have a bad start, the media will be pointing fingers at Howard or Harden. Look at last years Lakers. Or any other team that had high expectations, but played badly. The spotlight is always on the stars and not on the 3rd or 4th best player on the team.
     
  15. jocar

    jocar Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    4,869
    Likes Received:
    614
    This is music to my ears. Emotions are a double edged sword, and it seems moreso with Lin. Keep those negative thoughts or worries in check.... become more consistent.

    "The problem with intelligent people is that they are also so full of doubts"
     
  16. Whoopy

    Whoopy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    853
    Likes Received:
    20
    He's one of the reason DH left Orlando.
     
  17. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,715
    Likes Received:
    18,915
    How is it a double standard?

    If the Rockets as a team plays well, Lin will keep his job regardless of his numbers - there's going to be a desire to not tinker with something that is working well, even if Lin isn't putting up great numbers.

    If the Rockets get off to a slow start, you only have two positions you can change. And that's the 4 or the 5. Parsons, Howard, and Harden are locked in. In this scenario, Lin will be scrutinized and if he is not putting up better numbers than Bev, he will become the back-up.
     
  18. meh

    meh Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    15,368
    Likes Received:
    2,242
    I think Lin has almost no chance of being traded. The feelers Morey was going for during the offseason likely came from potential to add CP3. But at this point, it's extremely unlikely the Rockets gain anything by trading Lin.

    If Lin plays VERY well, obviously they would not trade him.

    If Lin plays well, then technically you can trade him, but for who? PG is the deepest position in the league. You won't trade him for picks because you're contending. If you trade him for a vet, it would have to be the best fit possible. Off the top of my head, perhaps a Lin+fillers for Danny Granger may work. But it's hard to imagine Pacers doing that unless George Hill goes out for the season. Basically it had to be a specific situation like the Alston/Lowry trade.

    If Lin doesn't play well, then there's no point because the Rockets aren't desperate for Lin's capspace. They'll just bench him and let his contract run out.

    Overall, I think Lin's going to be a Rocket for the next 2 years.
     
  19. autoprt

    autoprt Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,106
    Likes Received:
    12
    agree totally with this statement.
     
  20. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,914
    This isn't about being fair. This just is.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now