ClutchFans Game Thread: Timberwolves @ Rockets 1/8/2023

Every postgame is basically opponents just saying how our guards don't know how to play basketball, whether it's directly or indirectly(See comments about Sengun needing the ball more)

At some point it has to sting and come across as the truth and not hating.

 

It's not like Jalen Green didn't make first team as well and that he's just been stinking up the place and has never had any flashes whatsoever. I doubt NBA GMs opinion on Green as a prospect changed all that much.

I imagine many teams think they can coach him better and utilitize his skillset better than we have.

Also, the rookie team is voted on by coaches any ways, not GMs, so it gives no information about how GMs, who think far more long term than coaches, feel about the abilities of any of the players.

 

I'm not mad, just a lot of grass is greener going on around here.

 

What did Paolo do in the NBA that Green hasn't? I'm missing something?

Yall act like we've never seen a rookie average fringe all star numbers.

I'm saying he hasn't proven anything.

I mean its kinda funny to me, last year everyone was jealous about Mobley and Barnes and now no one even cares to bring them up anymore.

 

The good thing is what is wrong is very obvious and HC change will bring success with little adjustment.

 

I remember before the season started Jalen and KPJ was talking about wanting to be the best backcourt in the league. Everything was about them two and not about the team. And you can see it in the way the Rockets play.

 

Yeah, i don't doubt that opinions of nba prospects by fans, writers, coaches, GMs, change dramatically after 1.5 seasons/120 reak games played by those prospects and when they turn into real live NBA players- we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

I also think that in every 2021 redraft piece now you're going to see Green slip sliding down and Wagner at 1-2-3. Hope I'm proven wrong.

 

Understandable.

 

I wonder which head coach will be the best for our team. Silas is a players coach and way too soft. You have the drill Sargent types like Byron Scott who are way too tough and will demoralize these kids. Ideally you want a mixture of both.

 

Quin Snyder is there waiting to teach the kids "No diva, team first" mentality.

 

I think he took the year off to evaluate his options. He's going to be #1 on everyone's list which is why he's taking his time. If we get Wemby, I can for sure see him choosing us. But there will be plenty of teams looking for a HC change, especially ones with title aspirations such as the Celtics, Bucks, Sixers, Mavs etc if they disappoint.

 

Spoiler

https://www.nba.com/news/2022-23-gm-survey
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
1. Paolo Banchero, Orlando – 31%
2. Chet Holmgren, Oklahoma City – 28%
T-3. Jaden Ivey, Detroit – 14%
T-3. Jabari Smith, Houston – 14%
5. Keegan Murray, Sacramento – 7%
» Also receiving votes: Dyson Daniels, New Orleans; Bennedict Mathurin, Indiana

https://www.nba.com/news/2021-22-gmsurvey
WHICH ROOKIE WILL BE THE BEST PLAYER IN FIVE YEARS?
1. Evan Mobley, Cleveland – 33%
2. Cade Cunningham, Detroit – 30%
3. Jalen Green, Houston – 23%
4. Jalen Suggs, Orlando – 10%
5. Davion Mitchell, Sacramento – 3%

https://www.nba.com/news/2020-21-gmsurvey
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
1. James Wiseman, Golden State – 36%
2. LaMelo Ball, Charlotte – 25%
3. Anthony Edwards, Minnesota – 14%
4. Patrick Williams, Chicago – 11%
5. Isaac Okoro, Cleveland – 7%
> Also receiving votes: Onyeka Okongwu, Atlanta; Obi Toppin, New York

https://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2019
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
1. Zion Williamson, New Orleans — 68%
2. Ja Morant, Memphis — 18%
3. Cameron Reddish, Atlanta — 7%
Also receiving votes: Jarrett Culver, Minnesota; Darius Garland, Cleveland

https://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2018
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
1. DeAndre Ayton, Phoenix – 27%
Jaren Jackson Jr., Memphis – 27%
3. Luka Doncic, Dallas – 17%
4. Marvin Bagley III, Sacramento – 13%
Kevin Knox, New York – 13%
6. Wendell Carter Jr., Chicago – 3%

https://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2017
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
1. Josh Jackson, Phoenix – 24%
2. Markelle Fultz, Philadelphia – 21%
Jayson Tatum, Boston – 21%
4. Lonzo Ball, L.A. Lakers – 14%
Ben Simmons, Philadelphia – 14%
Also receiving votes: Jonathan Isaac, Orlando; Dennis Smith Jr., Dallas

https://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2016
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
1. Ben Simmons, Philadelphia – 70.0%
2. Kris Dunn, Minnesota – 20.0%
3. Brandon Ingram, L.A. Lakers – 6.7%
4. Joel Embiid, Philadelphia – 3.3%

https://web.archive.org/web/2015102...res/john_schuhmann/nba-com-2015-16-gm-survey/
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
1. Karl-Anthony Towns, Minnesota -- 62.1%
2. Emmanuel Mudiay, Denver -- 10.3%
Jahlil Okafor, Philadelphia -- 10.3%
D'Angelo Russell, L.A. Lakers -- 10.3%
Also receiving votes: Kristaps Porzingis, New York; Myles Turner, Indiana

https://web.archive.org/web/2014102...res/john_schuhmann/nba-com-2014-15-gm-survey/
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
1. Jabari Parker, Milwaukee -- 35.7%
2. Andrew Wiggins, Minnesota -- 32.1%
3. Joel Embiid, Philadelphia -- 21.4%
Also receiving votes: Dante Exum, Utah; Doug McDermott, Chicago; Julius Randle, L.A. Lakers

https://web.archive.org/web/20131025065231/http://www.nba.com/news/2013-14-nba-gm-survey
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
1. Victor Oladipo, Orlando -- 40.0%
2. Cody Zeller, Charlotte -- 13.3%
3. Anthony Bennett, Cleveland; Ben McLemore, Sacramento -- 10.0%
5. Kelly Olynyk, Boston -- 6.7%
Also receiving votes: Steven Adams, Oklahoma City; Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee; Michael Carter-Williams, Philadelphia; Shane Larkin, Dallas; C.J. McCollum, Portland; Nerlens Noel, Philadelphia

https://web.archive.org/web/20121024220032/http://www.nba.com/news/2012-13-gm-survey
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
1. Anthony Davis, New Orleans -- 86.7%
2. Bradley Beal, Washington -- 6.7%
Also receiving votes: Damian Lillard, Portland; Jonas Valanciunas, Toronto

https://web.archive.org/web/20120118221248/http://www.nba.com/news/features/2012-gm-survey/
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
1. Kyrie Irving, Cleveland -- 51.9%
T2. Ricky Rubio, Minnesota -- 11.1%
T2. Jonas Valanciunas, Toronto -- 11.1%
T2. Derrick Williams, Minnesota -- 11.1%
Also receiving votes: Alec Burks, Utah; Enes Kanter, Utah; Tristan Thompson, Cleveland; Kemba Walker, Charlotte

https://web.archive.org/web/2014102.../features/10/02/rookie-predictions/index.html
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
1. John Wall, Washington 67.9%
2. DeMarcus Cousins, Sacramento 10.7%
2. Blake Griffin, L.A. Clippers 10.7%
4. Derrick Favors, New Jersey 7.1%
5. Evan Turner, Philadelphia 3.6%

https://web.archive.org/web/2013103...ws/features/gmsurvey.international/index.html
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
1. Blake Griffin, L.A. Clippers 65.5%
2. Tyreke Evans, Sacramento 10.3%
2. James Harden, Oklahoma City 10.3%
4. Stephen Curry, Golden State 6.9%
Also receiving votes: Jonny Flynn, Minnesota; Ricky Rubio, Minnesota

https://web.archive.org/web/2008110...2008/tipoff/10/21/gmsurvey.rookies/index.html
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
1. Greg Oden -- 30.8%
2. Michael Beasley -- 23.1%
Derrick Rose -- 23.1%
4. Anthony Randolph -- 7.7%
Russell Westbrook -- 7.7%
Others receiving votes: Jerryd Bayless, O.J. Mayo

https://web.archive.org/web/20080412055613/http://www.nba.com:80/preview2007/gmsurvey_rookies.html
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
1. Kevin Durant, Seattle 74.1%
2. Greg Oden, Portland 22.2%
3. Rodney Stuckey, Detroit 3.7%

https://web.archive.org/web/20061214153223/http://www.nba.com/preview2006/gmsurvey_three.html
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
Andrea Bargnani, Toronto 22.2%
Tyrus Thomas, Chicago 22.2%
Randy Foye, Minnesota 18.5%
Brandon Roy, Portland 11.1%
Others receiving votes: LaMarcus Aldridge, Portland, Rudy Gay, Memphis, Adam Morrison, Charlotte, Shelden Williams, Atlanta

https://web.archive.org/web/20061214153223/http://www.nba.com/preview2006/gmsurvey_three.html
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
Marvin Williams, Atlanta 37.5%
Andrew Bogut, Milwaukee 16.7%
Gerald Green, Boston 12.5%
Chris Paul, New Orleans/Oklahoma City 8.3%
Others receiving votes: Monta Ellis, Golden State, Raymond Felton, Charlotte, Channing Frye, New York, Danny Granger, Indiana, Rashad McCants, Minnesota, Martell Webster, Portland

https://web.archive.org/web/20080418093127/http://www.nba.com/preview2004/gmsurvey_rookies.html
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
Dwight Howard, Orlando 70.0%
Shaun Livingston, L.A. Clippers 10.0%
Emeka Okafor, Charlotte 10.0%
Andres Nocioni, Chicago 5.0%
Sebastian Telfair, Portland 5.0%

https://web.archive.org/web/20071029015018/http://www.nba.com/preview2003/gm_survey_031016.html
Which rookie will be the best player in five years?
LeBron James, Cleveland 81.0%
Dwyane Wade, Miami 9.5%
C. Anthony, Den.; M. Pietrus, G.S. 4.8%

 

He is certainly the most clever guy within all NBA coaches. He also understands the game globally as he worked as HC in Europe. European teams care the team most and can't stand empty stats guys.All starters are important. You can't be someone the team to be built around. The most you can be "Primus inter pares" (the first within equals), not emperor.

The Rockets squad is full of fantastic players and these boys needs a just, clever, experienced person to lead them. Snyder is the guy. Pay a million more and get him. If you paid 90 millions to unplaying John Wall, another million won't make a big change.

 

This is what you get with two young guards trying to learn the NBA game. Both of them are trying to establish themselves in the league so they think they need to score to do that. Neither of them have ever been good at setting up teammates and they don’t know about playing defense yet either.

KPJ is playing out of position right now as we “try” him out at PG. He should be playing SG. We didn’t have any other options to play PG so we gave him a shot. He also doesn’t have the mental capacity to run a team and be a leader out there. So none of this surprises me. It’s just a matter of time before the Rockets move on from this KPJ at PG experiment and move him to 6th man where he belongs.

The Rockets as an organization are ok with us losing right now. They want another high draft pick to add to the rebuild. This team sorely needs some vets to teach all these young guys how to be pros. Gordon is not that guy. I’m hoping he gets moved at the deadline. This is not a big coaching issue to me, because this team is so young they don’t know how to play together and win. Just can’t have two young Gs as the “leaders” of your team without good vets around them to show them how to play the NBA game. And I mean vets that can still play.

 

I just don't think Green has played as terrible for their opinion to change on him as a prospect.

I feel like some of these takes are acting as if he's putting up true bust numbers when they are really just the numbers of a young player trying to put things together. Like I mentioned, a lot of the elite players struggled for stretches of times. Few players come in like Lebron or recently Ja just come in dominate consistently and even impact winning right away. That's rare. What usually happens is a player looks great for a month or two...then bad...then good another month...then decent...then hopefully it all clicks and they get it.

If Green's shot improves and becomes consistent, he instantly becomes an elite player. That's the click for him. He's had good shooting stretches, he's had bad ones, and when he has bad ones all of a sudden people are down on him and ready to give up on him and forget about when he was playing well.

If he were having an Anthony Bennet, Tyrus Thomas, Wiseman kind of start...yeah...but I think most GMs are going to think he can still put it together. He's not that. I think that's what should be kept in mind.

Now Jabari has had a rougher start to his career because the thing he's good at (Shooting) is the thing he's currently bad at. Even early rookie Jalen had his athleticism, he just couldn't even drive consistently to show it. Jabari is more of a concern because what we were sold isn't what we got. We thought if anything he'd make these shots and everything else would be the issue but its turned out the only thing he's really flashed is being a good defender and having a good shooting game like a few times per month.

 

The best is 2018, GMs thought Deandre and JJJ would be better than Luka Doncic, 18 years old MVP of Euroleague. American "eliticism" is jaw dropping. I would not surprise if few of them even does not know what Euroleague is.

I can understand Jalen Suggs, Davion Mitchell votes now. They voted him higher than Barnes/Giddey/Wagner/Herb/Ayo/Sengun..
10% believed that Jalen Suggs would be the best and these people manages multi-billion dollars franchises. Jesus.

 

You hit the nail on the head here, and it's another thing that frustrates me to no end. Our vets are literally a soft-spoken and mentally gone Eric Gordon and fan-favorite Bobi.

We could've gotten a veteran guard, like Rubio or (god forbid) Augustin. ****, even smart role-players like Joe Ingles could've been had for cheap. Instead we hold on to the one veteran we have, the guy who is probably least likely to take anyone under his wing or show anyone the ropes.

What is going on

 

Why they let Denis Schroeder to go? He signed for a minimum.

 

Well, it is until someone grabs the French professional.

Whole lot of chasing the hottest gal in school.

 

I remember a few years ago Minnesota fans and talking heads would’ve made a big deal about beating the Rockets..