ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Wizards 12/9/2006

Like I said, stats itself is objective, but intepretation is always subjective. Nobody is perfectly objective, including you sir. When I say your objectivity, it would be the objectivity you perceived, and it's still a subjective matter.

You did say he stepped up, but with a back hand compliment that it was against 3rd or 4th string centers. That's not ANALYSIS as you protraited so many times, in a "post-game analysis" thread. Please don't claim it has more value than a simple "it was a great game" positive one-liner, it's just a negative one-liner, which sounds quite bitter, and I wonder why. I would expect it from a Wizards board not on a Rockets board, but it's just my "objectivity".

Speaking of 4th quarter where other teams' defense focusing on Yao Ming, that's his value! No other centers in the league getting that much attention in the 4th, only Shaq, but in a reverse and negative way, aka hack-a-Shaq. It's team game, when Yao Ming draws double team and huge defensive effort, it opens up for other players on the Rockets team. Yao needs to improve in many of his aspects, but he also deserves some credit before he's perfect, same as everyone else, including yourself at work.

 

I don't care what anyone says, scoring 23 points in a single quarter to bring your team a win against even the worst team in the league is still tough. Otherwise all the superstars would be doing this every game. Wade, Kobe, Lebron, etc would never lose the close ones.

At this rate, Yao will only play a 'legitimate' good game when it's against Duncan, Dwight Howard, Shaq/Zo, Garnett, and maybe Stoudamire (not really). So in theory Yao will only have approximately 10-15 possible good games total. I guess Yao still has a long way to go before he goes from role player to joining that group of guys.

 

Quote "I'm not going to create a thread just to talk about Yao's shortcomings. The purpose of this thread was to discuss the game, not celebrate the Rockets victory."

Really? You forget about your talk at threat " player of month"....

 

Well, the player of the month is arguable---I would say it is objective to some degree, but this one is really biased. One thing is true: if JVG ever read the recent thread by Durvasa, he will feel much better about himself.

 

But why point that out when everyone else here is already quite aware of it? I'm not going to waste time recapping things about the game that's already being discussed. I wanted to bring attention to something, relevant to the outcome of the game, and in particular Yao's role in that outcome, that no one else here seemed to have acknowledged. Isn't that the point of this thread?

 

Maybe I'm dense. What's your point here?

 

Few things I want to add to.

1.There were about 5 mins delay before 4th qt.which help Yao a lot.

2.Their 1st and 2nd center injuried because they tried to defend Yao.It is alomst the same Yao fouled them out.

3.Yao's most misses in the first 3 qt.s were under the basket,I think.He made his jumpers all game,so if their 1st and 2nd center played the 4 th qt it shouldn't make any difference since all Yao made in the 4th qts were all jumpers.

 

Well, you mentioned Thomas's injury without discussing Tmac's impact. I must've missed somebody's discussion on a 4th quarter when Yao was facing Thomas and Tmac was not out; or just what the 4th quarter would be if Tmac was not out. And if there is one, I apologize to you for saying you are biased; if not, why not bring all these possibilities in your analysis, I mean instead of "Yao did step up but he was against the 3rd/4th string wizards centers"?

 

Durvasa,

My excitement level is always dumbed down some when I read your posts, but I always enjoy reading what you have to say. Very objective and its quite obvious you knows his stuff... being a basketball fan of only about 5 years... I always welcome knowledgeable and objective analysis.

However I gotta disagree when you claim yao faced weaker defense in the 4th. I just finished watching the game, and from what I noticed, etan and brendan really didn't play stronger defense then booth/lang. In the first 3 quarters, yao got good post position consistantly against etan and brendan which lead to very easy buckets.. in the 4th quarter he was getting good post position as easily as he was in the first 3 quarters, however all of his 4th quarter fgs were jump shots, and all were tightly conested aswell. Now I believe that even if etan or brendan would have been available in the 4th.. yao still woulda have easily shot over them. Yao was also conisistantly double teamed in the 4th.. he wasnt doubled nearly as much in the first 3 quarters. So I woulda argue he faced considerably tougher D in the 4th, you just cant stop yao when hes hitting his jumpshots like that.

 

Nobody accused you of making up any facts. However, what you pointed out isn't ground-breaking discovery either. No player is perfect, and no game is perfect, so everything is subject to be scrutinized if you want to. What's the point then? To prove something? Everything you said is legit, but it's not the full picture, rather only focusing on negative aspects of any positive events. Similarily, those highlights of Arenas's shoes vs. Yao's 23 points in the 4th quarter, when TMac went out, were not true analysis of the game. Nitpicking is not lying, but it's still nitpicking. I am not very comfortable with your negativity towards one single player in any possible event. But it's just my observation, and it could be wrong. Even if it's true, you can still be as negative as you want to. I am way passed the stage to believe I can change someone's attitude towards something on a message board.

 

Alright.

I disagree. I wasn't trying to "compliment" Yao, in the first place. I was describing something I observed about the game. (1) Yao stepped up, and (2) he did so against a team without it's two best centers.

And I do think there is more information there than simply saying "Yao had a great game."

I gave Yao credit. We wouldn't have won the game if Yao didn't perform as he did. In addition to crediting Yao, I pointed out our good fortune that Washington, already a weak defensive team, were without their two regular-rotation centers in the fourth quarter. Does that fact diminish Yao's feat? Perhaps. But it doesn't completely erase it. Yao did what he was supposed to do and more against a weak defensive lineup. Fortunately that was enough to pull out the win.

 

Very true. If you have watched the game, Yao actually got better inside position against Etan Thomas and Brendan Haywood in the first half. Most of them are point-blank hook shots and layup. Some people should at least watch the game highlights before making commenting about the game here.

 

So, where was the credit?

Oh, he's supposed to be 6/6 and scoring 23 points in the 4th quarter facing double team? Why is that? Because your objectivity says so? Please let us know what he is supposed to do in each quarter BEFORE next game.

 

Yao went 7/13 in the first three quarters, and 6/6 in the fourth. If I have time, maybe I'll watch the game again and compare how well he was defended and how well his shots were contested. Some times, what a player does defensively is subtle to us casual fans but still makes a difference. The big discrepency is in the free throw attempts. Only 1/2 in the first there quarters, and 11/12 in the fourth. Do Etan Thomas and Brendan Haywood give him that many trips to the foul line in the fourth quarter? If I was betting on it, I would say no.

 

hater or depressed, need see psychiatrist anyway.

 

When you a player "stepped up" in a win, that's giving him credit. We wouldn't have won the game without his effort in the fourth quarter. In another post, I made it more explicit:

What I said:

 

It's simple why Yao Dominated the 4th. TMAC was out and he needed to score. That's it.

 

There was a whole thread discussing McGrady's injury, and everyone here knew he was injured. I don't think it was necessary to point out the obvious -- Yao stepped up in McGrady's absence. That's the most obvious storyline one could come up with for this game.

 

Exactly. I agree with Durvasa most of the time, but Yao simply got in a zone, the same way perimeter players do. At that point, I don't care if you put Bill Russell on him. He's unstoppable. His level of intensity picked up and he willed us to a victory. It makes that more impressive that he has another level to go to like all the greats do. Once he smelled the finish he laid it all out. He can't play like that for 40 minutes, but he can definitely do it for a shorter period.

If Yao and Tmac show that will to win and that intensity, they will simply overwhelm the opposition with their talent. There's just no better combo in the league.

We never missed a beat last night. When Yao went out Tmac carried us and vice versa. Washington is a very good team at home. That was a great win-the equivalent of beating San Antonio or Dallas at home.

 

Probably true.

I don't really understand how they're the same. Injuries are accidental and unplanned for. If Yao's objective was to injure the other players so he could have a big fourth quarter, then this would make sense.

You're assuming he'd get/take the same type of shots against Thomas/Haywood. I think that probably wouldn't happen.