ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Warriors 11/29/2007

No, I watch basketball. Anybody who watches him play, knows that the talent, the tenacity, the flair of BD is undeniable. I am just giving the guy props, because he is not just good, he is ELITE. nothing wrong with giving a superstar some recognition, right?

 

You sure you watched the 2002 playoffs? Because the series we are talking about was over at 3-1.

Where did you find the other 3 games of the series?

 

I should add Kidd to the list of top 3 PGs but even Kidd lacks Davis' scoring abilities while Davis is nearly as good of a rebounder and passer as Kidd.

A healthy Davis lacks very little in terms of being the consumate PG. He can score in every way, rebound, pass and lead his team. He has good size and strength and overall athleticism. Nash doesn't have all those gifts. Nash is a poor rebounder and lacks physical strength.

The bottom line: Davis is the most complete PG in the lead when in shape and healthy.

 

For Yao to be consistent, we need him to post up with shooters around him. We need to post it up and isolate him because he gets killed with turnovers in this new offense. Especially with him against smaller centers. What happen to the Shang hai shake? I think the odd man out of the rotation offense wise is Chuck Hayes. I don't think Scola is fully ready. I don't think we should have traded Juwan Howard for Mike James since he was a pretty good mid range shooter. I don't see any other way Yao Ming can be consistently good game without a half court post up offense with respectable shooters.

 

you know who could be like him?

Derrick Rose.

 

I hear what you are saying, but no way a healthy Davis is as good a POINT GUARD as a healthy Kidd.

 

Right.

I was just surprised you are realizing NOW that he is not just good but elite. That has been the case for a long, long time.

 

1) why can't I use the #s? tmac said he was the best player in that series and individually he was. he did everything and guarded davis on the other end. but he also said the hornets were a better team and they were. his #s and play spoke for themselves.

2) rafer, what can i say? looks like he's back to his old self after the good first quarter, the shots just didn't hit rim.

 

I totally disagree. I think he is at least as good if not better. I know how great Kidd is but Davis is more complete.

 

i think my point was that i didn't JUST NOW realize it, i just was giving him props. thats it.

so, i guess what we are saying is that we agree. baron davis is a top tier point guard and nash and kidd are a close second. i put deron williams next then chris paul. but baron does so many things for his teammates that kidd and nash can't do.

 

Because Davis's numbers are just as good if not better.

 

9 out of 10 experts would definitely put Kidd ahead of Davis but I am going against popular opinion.

Davis is, and always has been, extremely special. Just those injuries and lack of conditioning early in his career served as roadblocks.

Kidd is a phenomenon, too and one of the best few PGs of all-time. I feel that Davis should be just ahead of him though even though he will likely never get such recognition.

 

like kenny smith said today on TNT, it doesn't matter if you are a better player than another player, it's all about wins in the playoffs and championships.

paul may be a better player than deron (deron has better teammates), but b/c deron advanced deep last yr and paul never made the playoffs, most people would choose deron.

same way w/ tmac and other perimeter players who have advanced.

the warriors game today is a perfect example. stephen jackson initiated some plays early and got them off. monte ellis can create. davis does not have to do it all the time.

we saw tonight how our offense ran when if tmac is not shooting AND creating, it's a mess.

again, it's all about wins and losses. talking about player A v. B, it all ends up about wins and losses.

 

I just read what you wrote but yes, it seems we do agree that Davis is an amazing player.

I would put Nash even with Davis at this point. Kidd is a close second.

I would also definitely put Paul a notch above Williams. Both are great but Paul is the best of the young PGs. Down the road, Williams has the size advantage over Paul which could eventually make it more of a tough call. Right now, Paul over Williams in my book.

 

that's why u watch the damn games. #s didn't tell what tmac had to do as compared to what davis had to do.

 

Actually, most people DID pick Paul in every survey I have ever seen on that question.

 

Have to disagree on Williams over Paul. Obviously, CP3 makes everyone around him better, as does Deron to 90% of the same effictiveness, but I love Deron's size for future development and his scoring is a notch above. He has more help than Chris but I think Williams will end up the better point guard when all is said and done.

 

to me, the best PG/player can be able to make something out of nothing.

jkidd MADE kenyon martin. he made the pathetic nets into a title contender for a few yrs.

baron davis NEEDS players around him to be a stud. nash NEEDS other players around him to be a stud. same with billups.

PGs like kidd and now paul can put up great stats and help their team wins when they CLEARLY don't have a star player (kidd now has vince and rj but before that no).

 

I also disagree with that point. Even though I think Baron is as good as Nash and better than Kidd, that is the one area where I think both Nash and Kidd are just slightly better than Davis.

Nash and Kidd make their teammates better like no other PGs in the game.

Davis is just slightly more well-rounded then either Nash or Kidd which is why I would annoint him the best PG overall aside from his injury-prone tendencies and up and down conditioning.

 

Those are very good arguments. It is a close call but right now I give Paul the edge.

For the reasons you argue, I agree that Williams possibly has the brighter future.