1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Suns 12/20/2003

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Clutch, Dec 20, 2003.

  1. sup123

    sup123 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,989
    Likes Received:
    0
    hmm...time for a trade. Is steve tradeable?
     
  2. daoshi

    daoshi Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2002
    Messages:
    3,021
    Likes Received:
    75
    Actually, that's a typical sign of OVER coached. These guys have been playing basketball ever since they were teenages, they know what to do even in their dreams. Right now, they are told to play a certain way which is against their nature, (I'm not saying it's a bad way). That's why you saw the hesitation & confusion on the court.

    They should get better with time, otherwise you have to reevaluate the personnel.


    --daoshi
     
  3. ttstk123

    ttstk123 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2003
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0

    Here are our offensive possessions for the 4Q:

    #1 - Moochie TO
    #2-6 - Went to Yao in the POST. Results = 2 shooting fouls (4pts by Yao), 1 easy layup by JJ due to double teaming on Yao (assisted by Yao), 2 wide open 3pts shots due to double teaming on Yao (but Pike miss both.) The key is we got what we wanted in all possessions. We simply didn't knock down two wide open shots.

    Steve check-in after possession #6 (I'm not trying to dish Steve, but this is what I observed… and this could be JVG calls)

    #7-21 - I won't go into details, but Yao was NOT the primary option in these possessions, at least not in the post. There were only two plays (#11,#12) ran for Yao. In one case, they set him up for a jumper (which he misses) and in the other, Steve made a bad pass turning the ball over. That’s 2 plays out of 15 possessions (13%) since Steve checked in.

    I can understand mixing up our Offense. But going completely away from Yao IN THE POST when he was probably the best option last night given how we were shooting is simply strange. I just don't understand it?????? Can anyone explain this?
     
  4. SwingMan

    SwingMan Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2002
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    The only way to explain it is, from what I saw anyways, selfishness based on ego on Francis' part. Stephon made minced meat out of him in the 1st half & SF wanted to get even, maybe thinking that Yao's presence alone in the 4th would give him the room to move.

    I totally agree that it's inexplicable, as our (Suns) big guys were in serious foul trouble (Jake Voskuhl & Jahidi White) while Yao had, what 4 total?

    IMO, you guys have enough scorers everywhere else - what you need is a solid floor leader to keep everyone organized and in line. Someone who can score when needed, but also someone who realizes that the team needs to ride the hot hand - If it's SF, so be it. But if it's someone else, damnit, feed him like he hasn't eaten in weeks! Someone like Gilbert Arenas would be ideal, as he's already found more of that balance than Francis at this point, not to mention that he's been well coached throughout his career (Lute Olsen at U of A, Musselman in GS and now Eddie Jordan in D.C.).

    You guys have a decent team and a solid coach - just a crappy floor leader is all.
     
  5. DavidS

    DavidS Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2000
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    0
    The point is, I put it out there. Just watch...
     
  6. rocketjf

    rocketjf Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    0

    I agree with you on this. JJ should not start.
     
  7. ArtV

    ArtV Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Messages:
    7,000
    Likes Received:
    1,710
    Look out 500 - here we come!
     
  8. DavidS

    DavidS Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2000
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok, now I'm depressed...


    :(
     
  9. bigboymumu

    bigboymumu Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 1999
    Messages:
    3,421
    Likes Received:
    1
    OK! I'll watch Ms. Cleo!
     
  10. DavidS

    DavidS Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2000
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ah yes. You contradict yourself....

    First you say, "Yao is in his 2nd year. Cut him some slack." Then you say, "Yao IS as ambidextrous as a center gets." Now, which is it? Is he just fine? Or can he learn something new? Come on....I'm waiting.

    I know that Yao has the ability to use this left hand. But when he DOES NOT (out of habit or unawareness), then it should be pointed out. It's a talent that he CAN use, but has stopped using since his rookie season. So, he IS ambidextrous, but has not been using it.

    Do you understand?
     
  11. DavidS

    DavidS Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2000
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    0
    Stay on topic...debate about basketball.
     
  12. farhan007

    farhan007 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,363
    Likes Received:
    0
    wow, you would think after posting 10+ posts, you would know that Steve and Cuttino are the most bashed on the team...
     
  13. bigboymumu

    bigboymumu Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 1999
    Messages:
    3,421
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ms. Cleo,
    I don't need you to tell me what to do or not do. You said to watch and I said I will. What is ridiculous is your claim that Yao is not using his left hand and misconstruing my comments about the current centers in the league. (Not all centers in the history of the NBA)

    Contradicting myself? What center in the league is as effective as Yao with either hand? Maybe one (Divac). What is funny is that for some reason you think you have discovered something and you point it out like you are an expert. You haven't proven your point with anything you have written. You have proven a tendency to seem too aggresive with your attacks against many on this board. Especially those that are new.

    What post player in the league is ambidextrous? Not Shaq, not O'neal, not Duncan... Don't confuse going to the weak hand with shooting with the left. Yao goes to his left enough to keep the defender honest. All the premier post players have go to moves that are predicated on maintaining position. Yao's deficiencies deals with maintaining position. All you are doing is throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks.
     
  14. DavidS

    DavidS Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2000
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    0
    I said, keep on topic... Miss. Mumu...

    Note: When I talk about using ones off-hand, I'm not taking about shooting 15 foot jumpers. I'm taking about close to the basket lay-ups or dunks. Yes, like McHale, TD, KG, and Divac can do if NEED BE. They don't use it all the time. But THEY DO USE IT when the situation demands it. Yao has started to refrain from this skill.

    Now. About other players physical abilities. I said this already. Shaq, TD, KG, can get away with not using their offhand because they have the quickness to do so. Their deception and quickness can make up for their off-hand use. But that does not mean that they don't know how to use their off-hand if need be. They just have more flexibility to decide during game play. It's about court awareness, as much as off-hand skill.

    Yao needs more advantages that Shaq, TD and KG. Because he's not as quick laterally as those players. So, he needs to rely on other advantages in getting the score. And one of those tendencies I've noticed this year was his habit of using his right hand MOST OF THE TIME!!!! NO matter what. Nine out of ten times he will do this. And guess what? Four of five of those be attempted dunks, but end up being BLOCKED. All because of failure to protect the ball and move to his off-hand. Positioning, off-hand use, and leverage are all keys to scoring inside if you are not quick laterally.

    What you are saying is, "Yao is just perfect the way he is...." Please don't be a Yao apologizer.

    And that should be all the reason more that he SHOULD use his off-hand to protect the ball because he can't maintain position long enough to use his "quickness" or lack thereof, to score.

    What I'm saying is that he's refrained to use this skill while in position since his rookie season. Now, this maybe a by-product of Ewings teachings of fundamental post moves. But because of this, maybe his moves have become more bland, predicable and static. But it is noticeable, if you look.
     
  15. waihh

    waihh Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    41
    I don't think last night's game was that bad. The ball was moved OK and they found the open man. This is what I like to see. Three reasons for our loss: First, the ball simply did not fall. at the 4th Qtr, Suns hit open three while Rox did not. Secondly, the defense on Marion failed big time. When Maron start to fire, JVG should have arranged to stop him. Finally, the 4 point call killed Rox. I do not see this loss as bad as others. The rox should play the same way as they played the last two games. Moving the ball and find the open man. Play good D. By the way, Steve and Mobley should work to reduce double dribble, etc.
     
  16. bigboymumu

    bigboymumu Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 1999
    Messages:
    3,421
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yao has advantages that those guys do not have. 7'6" is advantage enough. The guy needs to be more nasty, more aggressive. He uses his off hand enough.
     
  17. bigboymumu

    bigboymumu Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 1999
    Messages:
    3,421
    Likes Received:
    1
    Since his rookie season? You mean less than 30 games ago? Predictable? Sure, but if he is the player that I hope he is going to be, defenders will not be able to stop him even when they know what is coming.
     
  18. DavidS

    DavidS Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2000
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh, really? Advantage enough? Just being 7'6", is "advantage enough?"
    Hmmm, what about those 6'7" and 6'9" PF's that are blocking his shots?
     
  19. prlen

    prlen Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    738
    Likes Received:
    0
    U r right!Yao is a right-hand player before 18,
    he is training to accustom to a mode of left-hand shoot these days.
     
  20. iOrange

    iOrange Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    637
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is no way that Rudy OVERCOACHED them. And we saw what happened in the last 4 years!!!:mad:
     

Share This Page