ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Raptors 11/3/2004

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2883418


Rockets have defenseless look
Raptors prey on loss of a former strength in grinding out win
By JONATHAN FEIGEN
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle
RESOURCES


• Rockets fall to Pistons

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NBA:
Toronto 95,
Houston 88
FINAL

MULTI-MEDIA
AUDIO:
Tracy McGrady:
• On loss to Pistons
Jeff Van Gundy:
• On opening loss
Maurice Taylor:
• On season opener
INTERACTIVE:
Richard Justice says Rockets will win playoff series.
Requires the free RealPlayer or Flash.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

COMING UP
Friday:
at Memphis, 7:00 p.m.
TV/Radio:
Ch. 51, KILT (610 AM)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ROCKETS BY THE NUMBERS
• Schedule • Movements
• Roster • Depth chart
• Chronicle story archive
• Live NBA scores at a glance
• NBA Playoffs 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE PICKS
• Writers & readers: Predictions for '04-'05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SPORTS POLL
Which team will win the NBA Championship?


San Antonio
Houston
Lakers
Detroit
Sacramento
Miami
Minnesota
Other










TORONTO - Jeff Van Gundy was sick to his stomach, but back then it felt good.


This was before the first game of the season, and the pogo sticks bopping around inside him were a happy reminder of how all this still moves him.

Two nights later, he felt no better. But instead of "sick" with nerves and anticipation, he had been sickened. Instead of excited, he was disgusted. Instead of hopefully starting a new season, he had seen the Rockets lose 95-88 to the Raptors with problems as obvious as they were insurmountable.

But if Van Gundy felt the need to reach for an airsickness bag on the way to Memphis, it was not simply the Rockets' 0-2 start that had his system ready to revolt.

"We're just a bad defensive team right now," Van Gundy said.

And with that, a coach whose teams could always defend could not rely on even that.

"We're not guarding anybody," he said. "Not guarding, not rebounding, missing free throws, not taking care of the ball. It's not much more than that. Pretty simple.

"We just need to search and find some answers. How are we going to win? That's the only question, really."

It was one thing for the defending champion Pistons to efficiently march through the final minutes to take an opening-night win. Down the stretch a night later, the Raptors, with few changes since last season ended in the lottery, efficiently closed out the Rockets, who effectively crumbled.

There were other issues, to be sure. Facing a center combination of the 7-foot-2 swizzle stick Loren Woods and 6-foot-9 journeyman Donyell Marshall, Yao Ming had more turnovers, six, than field goals.


Shooting better
The Rockets shot much better than in Detroit, making 46.5 percent of their shots. But Tracy McGrady, who led the Rockets with 21 points and five assists, did not have a field goal in the fourth quarter.

As they had in Detroit the night before, the Rockets were at their worst with the game on the line. With the Raptors holding a six-point lead with two minutes left, Yao had consecutive turnovers, getting stripped by Rafer Alston and called for fouling Jalen Rose.

With the Raptors' lead at five after a Marshall jumper and Charlie Ward 3, Yao bobbled a defensive rebound out of bounds, giving Toronto an extra possession. And with that second chance, the Raptors worked around the Rockets' traps to find Woods alone inside for an uncontested dunk.

"You can lose a game in many places, and we lost the game in many places," Van Gundy said. "Getting blown out early (when they fell behind by 14), making a run back and then getting hammered again right before the half, then again at the end. So that game was lost in three different places, none more important than another."

But if you can lose a game in many places, rarely can it be won with such poor play down the stretch. By the time Woods was doing a pull-up on the rim, the Rockets' inability to consistently slow even the Raptors made all their rallies irrelevant.

"It's not so much offense," McGrady said. "It's on the defensive end. We have to get better team help. We have to trust each other a lot more ... and help each other out. When you play help defense ... you have to help out your teammates and trust that your teammate on the other side is going to help you out. Sometimes we have that. Sometimes we don't.

"Once we put together 48 minutes of trusting each other and being consistent, that's who we are. Now, 36 minutes a night is not 48."

This was the Rockets' strength last season when they were fifth in the NBA in field-goal percentage defense without many, if any, strong individual defenders. But as much as the Rockets' radical changes, with nine new players, including half the rotation, decisions are slow and late. Extra passes find wide-open shooters.

"We're taking a split second to turn and look instead of it being second-nature, where you know you're supposed to go after the double or go after the trap," forward Maurice Taylor said. "I don't think we're going to be a bad defensive team. We have better defensive players this year than last year. But we have to become familiar with the system and with each other."


Point made
They might not be destined to remain a bad defensive team, but an expert on the subject knows they are now. If Van Gundy did not get that point across, the Pistons and Raptors had.

"You have to develop a trust, a cohesiveness on defense, so when a guy is coming off a pick-and-roll and we help, the next man is going to help me, and so on," forward Jim Jackson said. "We haven't developed that trust to help and then help the helper. We're not anywhere near that yet.

"Right now, our strong suit is our Achilles heel."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rockets summary

Thinking kind thoughts
Rockets forward Tracy McGrady chose an unusual if perhaps comforting way to look at his now-familiar greeting upon his return to Toronto.

"It's all love," he said. "They still love me."

The Raptors have an odd way of showing it. As they have since McGrady left the team as a free agent before the 2000-2001 season, Toronto fans booed him when he was introduced and especially each time he touched the ball.

McGrady said he didn't mind the boos, adding they actually tend to work to his advantage.

"It really doesn't bother me at all," McGrady said. "When I come here and I hear the boos, that just motivates me to try to stay focused and try to kill them. But it is what it is."

McGrady was with the Raptors for three seasons and blossomed into one of the league's top players in his four seasons in Orlando. But he said he has not completely put the Toronto years behind him.

"I think about what it would have been like with me and Vince (Carter), what it would have been like with me and Grant (Hill)," McGrady said.

"I think about that a lot. But I made my decision to move on to Orlando. I thought I was going to play with Grant, but unfortunately, he went down with an ankle injury and it was four years without him.

"I've moved on and I'm playing with Yao (Ming) now."


Optimistic outlook
Yao Ming might have looked at the Raptors' starting center and expected a big night. But Loren Woods got a look at the schedule, thought of going against the Rockets' 7-6 center, and decided the matchup would be his chance to prove himself.

When he ended the Rockets' hopes with a late dunk, Woods let out a shout of "I told you!"

"Not (to) anybody specific, but you know, who ever was listening," Woods said. "I wanted to really just come out here and compete against Yao."

Woods did not outplay Yao, but he did enough. Yao had 17 points and nine rebounds, but also six turnovers. Woods had nine points and seven rebounds in 24 minutes.

On his fourth teams in his three seasons — and picked up after he was released by the expansion Bobcats — Woods has been labeled the weak link in Toronto's starting lineup. But like the matchup with Yao, he said he has tried let the doubts drive him.

"Every day I wake up, I hear some criticism about how the Raptors don't have a good center," Woods said.

"You know how I'm not good enough to play center, how I'm not strong enough or how center isn't my natural position.

"Every day I wake up and go in the weight room and do extra sets and get extra shots up and that's what motivates me right now, along with the team hopefully doing well."

 

I wonder if what we are seeing with Yao is not coming from JVG's coaching but from Patrick Ewing's instead? I swear that his style of play reminds me more and more of that of Ewing's with the Knicks. Am I wrong or didn't he used to have a nice shooting touch? Once upon a time, he would actually face the basket and hit a short jumpshot thereby rendering the double team and fronting defenses moot. Is it the elbow or something deeper? Through both games Yao's body language and demeanor on the court both suggest that something just isn't right here.

 

I think you're right - it is very clear that Y is making an effort to change old habits - right now he has to think every time - but soon it will be muscle memory and he'll be much more fluid and effective. He's definately stronger on the boards.

Looks to me like those that made points earlier that Yao's shot is off because of the additional bulk were right. It is effecting his free throws also. His shot will come back in due time.

Charvo's point about loosing at Det and Tor last year is indicative of the warnings about the first 6 games - it's gonna be tough going - still many kinks to work out. I still like our situation better this year than last year.

 

I think this one is really good:

Nov. 4, 2004, 1:42AM
1-2 punch still missing its oomph
By RICHARD JUSTICE
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2883835

TORONTO — This night began like most others. Yao Ming stepped inside Air Canada Centre and came face to face with a wall of cameras tracking his every move.

That was before the pre-game news conference with 30 Chinese reporters, before the sit-down with television types, before Yao came upon the assorted people wanting to shake his hand.

Afterward, there would be more of the same. More cameras. More interviews. More people recording his every word.

Watching him Wednesday night, one thought once more what a strange life Yao must lead. No wonder he spends his free time in his home or hotel room.

This sort of thing has been part of his life for so long that he accepts it with grace and dignity. He is comfortable enough to do many interviews in English.

What is different now is that he suddenly seems uncomfortable on the basketball court.

Taking a new approach
On the fast track to being the NBA's most dominant player, Yao has run into a smaller NBA filled with pesky forwards and sneaky guards who swarm him from every direction, slapping, poking, making life harder.

NBA teams once assumed the only way to deal with Yao's size was to put their biggest guy on him. Now they are finding that faster, smaller players are more effective. And the Rockets have so many new faces that this season has begun with an inevitable transition period.

For now, Yao's comfort zone has deserted him. Instead of dominating these two opening games against smaller opponents, he has been thrown out of sync.

The Rockets lost to Toronto 95-88 Wednesday night for an assortment of reasons.

They had another bad defensive night. They were beaten on the boards. They missed too many foul shots.

So let's not go placing an 0-2 start at Yao's doorstep.

Another rough outing
Yet for a second consecutive night, he didn't look anything like the guy some believe is on his way to becoming one of the NBA's 10 best players.

He missed some easy jumpers. He missed some foul shots. He had trouble getting open in the low post and took just nine shots for a second consecutive game.

And he had a terrible time when the Raptors placed 6-9 forward Donyell Marshall on him in the second half.

The Rockets knew this season might not begin smoothly. With so many new faces, they have preached patience from the first day of training camp.

They weren't kidding.

The Raptors sprinted to an early 13-point lead and were up by 12 at halftime.

Yao took three shots in the first half while being outplayed by Loren Woods in the post, then opened the second half by missing a layup and committing his fourth foul.

Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy yanked him off the court at that point, had a brief one-sided chat and sent him back in.

Moments later, Yao got his first assist of the season, and for a few moments, he dominated the game the way the Rockets hope he will.

Then in the fourth quarter while the Rockets were furiously scrambling to stay in the game, Marshall got the best of Yao, who attempted just two shots in the period and turned the ball over three times.

Yao's line — 17 points, nine rebounds and two blocks — masks a night that included six turnovers and four fouls.

"They weren't getting me the ball in the first half," he said. "They were trying, but I wasn't getting it."

Woods and Marshall did such a terrific job keeping the ball out of his hands that every other NBA team surely will attempt the same strategy.

If Yao didn't already know it when he arrived three seasons ago, he is learning the NBA adjusts against even the most dominant player. Now, it's his job to make some adjustments of his own.

"Some of it has to do with us," guard Jim Jackson said. "Some of it has to do with Yao getting position. Smaller guys tend to get in front of him or to get behind him and pull the chair out from under him, make him lose his balance."

One way to deal with the defensive pressure is to make an extra pass, force defenses to pay attention to others, and then get the ball back in Yao's hands.

At that point, it's up to him to score.

"He has to understand he has to get position," Jackson said. "But when he does, we've got to get him the ball quicker than we have been."

Maybe this is the kind of thing that is not surprising, considering how different the roster is.

Yao and Tracy McGrady may eventually be a terrific inside-outside combo, but they are not there yet.

"We're still feeling each other out," McGrady said. "It's going to take a little time."

 

I agree that ref's singling out Yao - never seen so many 3sec calls - and offensive fouls on a player w/out the ball.

But I also notice that Yao has zero discussion with officials. Maybe he respects authority too much - but he needs to start lobbying for himself and stop leaving it up to JVG and teamates - or the trend will continue - because the squeaky wheel that's getting the oil right now is opposing caoch - they're working refs all night against Yao. I think he can speak english fine now - so I hope that begins - he's gotta plead his own case - he's the only all star that doesn't.

 

Yes, I did...I normally take 16hrs or so after the game to edit, encode and upload to the server.

It will be up later today...and the Pistons one is already available. http://bbs.smeggyREMOVEsmeg.com/showpost.php?p=6627&postcount=1


now..to the Rockets

Its pretty basic...if yall were expecting them to come out of the gate hot...you are seriously delusional...You dont just throw together a bunch of new players and expect them to click immediately...

but it shouldnt surprise me that after only two regular season games the chicken littles showup in force.

patience people...its more than a word in the dictionary.

 

I watched the 2 games and am not much concerned about the early losses. Remember Minnesota began the first 12 games with a losing record and was dead last in the ranking in its division.

What I am really unhappy about is:

1) the sloppy defense. Missing assignments......how can you leave Carter wide open with no man covering him on so many occasions? Alston got so many open jumpers and he was killing us all night. Where were Lue and Ward?

2) JVG is clueless on offense. The offensive sets are ugly.

3) Never seen so many offensive fouls called on an all star player. 6 offensive calls during the first two games on Yao, where many of which were really ticky tacky calls. the 3sec violations......Come on, Shaq was in the paint for longer period time on numerous occasions. not a single time was he called for that. Imagine players like Shaq, Duncan averaging 3 offensive fouls a game. That would have totally disrupted any flow of their games. Yao definitely needs to take it out at the referees. This reminds of the treatment that Duncan got during the Olympics. Pure frustration.

 

This is exactly what i said in the chat. Of course, you got your haters who will then say that Duncan didn't know the rules, and that he was exposed as the basketball fraud he is.

The refs are just clamoring to call every possible call against yao. It's not our fault if the Raptors or Pistons choose to put a midget on Yao. They should not call fouls just because he is bigger than everyone else. Why did Yao put on all this muscle if he's going to be penalized for it?

 

Great post. I'd agree with all of your frustrations. The team defense is pretty bad right now. These guys just don't keep rotating and rotating which is necessary. If Yao goes to help on a drive and turns a layupinto a missed pull-up 5-10 foot jumper, but the shot is missed, you have to rotate to box out his man, etc.

The offensive sets aren't ugly, they're horrendous.

Yao is very confused about what he can and can't do physically. Sadly, I think he is getting called more because even though he is doing the EXACT same thing as a Shaq or Duncan, though with less force, he is doing it slower. For some reason, the refs think if something is done really quickly, as Shaq always quickly mows over people, then it is the defenders fault. I don't understand it.

 

2 losses dosn't mean a thing, YET.

Give these guys untill All Star break to realy get a good feel of each others game and take off from there.

 

It all depends on the player. Observe:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_...I1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwN0aA--?gid=2004110317&prov=ap

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. (AP) -- Shaquille O'Neal caught the ball deep in the low post, used his oversized posterior to bump Alonzo Mourning out of the way, then dropped in a layup with no one else around.
---
On his next trip downcourt after shaking Mourning with his butt bump, O'Neal freed himself with a shove to the back that the referees didn't see before knocking down a short jump hook.
---
`It was one-on-one coverage, and I don't know anybody in this league that can guard him one-on-one,'' Mourning said. ``I don't care if he has a pulled hamstring or he is slow -- the man is big. He is a massive individual. If you don't have the same weight and size to match that and you're playing him one-on-one and get behind him, he is going to back you down, drop step and there's not too much you can do about it.''

Yao is the same situation, just different calls.

 

The Refs are white and racist. They hate alien players especially asians

 

No just different game. Does he use his strength and size to his advantage? Would Shaq let Donyell Marshall and Loren Woods push him around? The problem with Yao is that he doesn't intimidate his opponents as much as he should, Shaq doesn't allow an opponent to think that he's better than him or even close to being as good as he is. Basically unless Shaq is playing Ben Wallace or Yao he leaves no doubt as to who the best center on the floor was that night, that's not always the case with Yao.

 

I agree, Yao has to let every1 know from the start that, "Im better than you so back the F*** up!"

I mean the guy is 7 freakin 6, he has to be intimidating.

 

The roster has gone through too much turnover to expect great things right away....and I wouldn't be surprised at a 6th seeding or lower in the playoffs, or not even making the playoffs, unless Les recognizes a couple of things: we need a real PG. And we need a real small forward.

Having five power forwards, five shooting guards, how do you really determine a rotation?

 

I agree with ya Jump, but then again I think it's a double standard we apply to Yao. Yeah he's big, but not as big as Shaq and a different player. What I didn't like about Woods defense last night was how Woods was allowed by the refs to slow Yao down when Yao tried to move up top and set a screen. Cause Woods is fronting Yao, he also impeded his path to move out of post position. In a sense, isn't that a blocking foul?

 

Every time he tries, he gets a foul call and is benched. That being said, I say let Yao swing the elbows and clock a few people to get them off his back. He will probably foul out a few times but I think the league may take some notice if a star player is consistently being fouled out for what amounts to "normal" NBA play.

 

Our offense seems to be able to look so pretty at times (especially when the ball gets into Yao's hands), and this leaves me pretty optimistic. But at the same time, it's amazing that when I think the Rockets have it all together, they seem to forget their flow most notably whenever at the start of each quarter. We just seem so slow to get the engine starting. I think another severe limiting factor is how Yao gets into foul trouble so early in the game. It automatically puts us in the hole (at least in the first two games)...it would be nice to see how we handle / maintain a 8 point lead or something, instead of always trailing by 8.

 

You got it ! Our problem is just about to get the ball to Yao, simple and plain. I wish Yao could tell the refs something like this, "if you guys keep calling me out while allow my opponent do whatever they want, I will blow them out first; and if things don't change, it is your turn " .

 

I don't really understand how that logic applies here. Does it really matter if Wallace or Marshall are "scared" of or intimidated by Yao when it comes to offensive foul calls? Bottom line, if Shaq, or most other postup big men made the same move as Yao in game 1, it probably wouldn't have been a foul. Hell, maybe Yao would be more intimidating if he were allowed to pin a man under the basket, blatantly push people out of the way, or set a nice strong pick. In fact, he has struck me as a guy who would do those things if he were allowed to. He tries to get away with subtle nudges down below and moving picks all the time.

You seem to be implying that Yao is not getting calls because he is not intimidating. I say he is not as intimidating because he doesn't get the calls. You see guys going right at Yao because more often then not, the refs are gonna call a foul on him, even if he just jumps straight up, or even just stands there. If the refs let him play a bit, more guys would think twice about doing that.