ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Grizzlies 3/29/2013

That's not entirely fair to torocan. Rocket_Pride's post (and kudos to him for actually going back and looking at plays) was examining where the Rockets screwed up, but somehow wound up picking out a disproportionate share of Lin errors. There were lots of errors to go around. Torocan's posts defending Lin don't typically purport to be examing the whole team's play; or if they do, then the Lin part isn't such a big part of it.

That said, I actually like Rocket_Pride's most recent post... it contained a lot more content than all but a few of his previous ones. Even if I don't agree with it, I think good on him for doing it. The posts that are just kicking the hornet's nest with nothing really behind them aren't funny or interesting or useful.

 

Is Delfino going to shut down Randolph when we meet again?

 

Yes, when the topic is Lin and there is what I believe to be misinformation, I'm happy to correct it. Look at the Pacers thread, I corrected a posted hyperbole of 3 TO = a 12 point swing.

That said, this thread is about the Memphis game. And Lin did NOT cost us this game. IE, the topic is the sitting of the Starters in the 4th quarter.

Who cost us this game? Folks can argue it's the players. And the Players bear some responsibility. The entire starting unit was not playing well for the bulk of the game.

The coach ultimately made the decision of who was being assigned minutes. The Coach's responsibility is to prepare the team for their opponents, to devise an offense and defensive scheme to counter those opponents, and to mentally prepare his players for the task at hand. Those are the parts that we can not see as those take place in the locker room.

However, the parts we CAN see are the substitutions of minutes, the calling of plays and the use of time outs. The value of time out usage will always be debatable as it's hard to show causal correlation, however minute substitutions are obvious, and the lack of plays called is obvious.

Repeatedly throughout the season I have made comments that he has sat Asik at the wrong times, has overplayed Harden and Parsons minutes, and his timing of resting players has been erratic at best.

And this is aside of any discussion of Lin's role on the team.

This game it came to the forefront because his move to sit the Starters was NOT normal. It was bizarre enough that the color commentators noted it. It was bizarre enough that the observers in the thread noted it.

For me, it's a pure mathematical error. A 9 point deficit is 3 possessions. It is well within the normal fluctuation of a game for 2 teams to swing between +-10 throughout a game.

With a small margin of errror due to the small number of remaining play off games, the Rockets can NOT afford to reduce the odds of winning any single game where they are already competitive.

It is nearly always easier to win the first night of a back to back. Veterans and more experienced players nearly always have the advantage on the 2nd night of a back to back. And the Rockets have shown regularly that they play poorly on the 2nd night of a back to back.

Gambling away the Memphis game is NOT something the Rockets could afford if they want to advance their play off seeding.

It's that simple. You do NOT throw a game out with THIS few games left in the season when the Play off seeding is this tight. Statement or no statement, energy or not.

At this point you live or die by the Starters as they're the most consistent and most skilled players you have on the Roster. THAT's why they are the Starters.

 

And that is why I generally like torocan's posts.

 

Nope, Delfino is going to work against Griffin tonight. Don't know if he will get through it alive or join Knight and Terry on the list of the departed. So a future reunion with Randolph might well be off.

 

Dallas just went on a 10 - 0 run at the end of the 4th to come back and beat the bulls. Harden and Lin were sitting on the bench smiling and cracking jokes last night in the 4th last night. I 100% guarantee we will fall short of the playoffs again and yet dillusional fans and experts will say things are looking up despite of it. We are competing against Utah lakers and the mavs for the last two spots. How many times have those teams missed the playoffs the last ten years? Who from us 4 are the youngest, has the least experience and least amount of talent on their squad?

 

For the goodness of CF, restrict all of us 2012/2013ers from posting. The entire forum is hijacked. Atleast I'll be able to browse without reading a bunch of LOFs circlejerking eachother.

 

Nooooooo Royce White! You're showing a lot of promise!

 

So...there is absolutely positively zero hope of us making the playoffs, despite our relatively easy schedule down the stretch and our current 2 1/2 game lead over the Jazz for the final spot?


I would have maybe taken you seriously if you went with ANYTHING other than "100% guarantee". To say we have literally no hope at this point is just an ignorant and ridiculous thing to say.

 

Riggghhhhttt. Answer some of the relative questions rather than take everything I said literally. Obviously nothing is guaranteed

Stop referring to an easy schedule, when experience and talent is way more relative.

 

I would definitely agree with you that experience and talent are more relative. However...I'd also say we are fine in the talent department, at least enough to make the playoffs down the stretch, especially with our 2 1/2 game lead. Sure, we lack experience, but that's why playing an easier schedule is very helpful.

I mean...I'd rather play worse teams than better teams, no?

We'll be fine. I have confidence, and you should as well.

 

Ha. Fair enough. I wish I had your confidence but just can't. It just feels too much like last year. I know it's a different team completely but I'm still the same rockets fan. I also don't agree with you in the talent department. We have possibly the worst starter in the conference with dmo, and that's not a knock, he's just simply the most inexperienced rookie. Parsons and Lin are too inconsistent on offense which hurts cuz asik is already a liability there and our sixth man is delfino. Compare the other team's squads. Yes we have harden but dirk and Kobe are just as good if not better when the heat is on. Those other teams have so much experience, someones gotta crumble. I already see our final game as a loss so we have very little room for error with this team.

I really hope you're fit and I'm wrong, but I have almost no faith in that.

 

*youre right not fit.....pause

 

This is where your math is pure BS. Did you not account for the deficits created by the starters vs the backup. Did you not notice the starters kept digging themselves a hole.

First off, a 9 point deficit can be 3 possession or 5 possessions. It's well within the normal fluctuation of a game if the team is not named the Rockets. The closest the "starters" have gotten the team was in the first quarter, probably trailing by 1 or 2 pts. If I recall correctly, the Rockets never led. The second unit came in the beginning of the 2nd quarter and some at the end of the 1st quarter and the defcit increased a bit but they got it back down to within 3 or so. Then the starters came later in the 2nd and the Grizzlies lead was pushed back up to 8 pts by halftime.

The starters then blew up the deficit in the 3rd quarter and with about 4 minutes left the deficit is 15 pts. Lin was subbed out. The following minute Harden and Parsons were also taken out. So around the 2 minute mark, there were no starters on the floor except DMo. The Grizzlies's lead was still 15 pts at this point.

Virtually the entire 4th quarter the deficit throttled between 10 - 13 points, give and take a few. The backups couldn't chop into the deficit any more, but they played hard and the deficit went down to 9 at one point . So what? The starters were so ineffective and played like crap you think the coach should just let the starters back in after the backups have been clawing and fighting their way back. HELL NO. It doesn't mean bringing in the starter it's all of sudden going to be competitive again. It wasn't competitive the entire game other than the 1st.

Don't even bring up consistency and the starters.

Again, your BS calculations is insulting everyone's bball intelligence. Also, it wasn't just the Grizzlies game the starters were having issues. It has been like this all season, up and down. As a fan, I'm fed up with it. McHale? Probably worse. You? Give Lin more minutes. That's all you care about.

 

Awesome, now people can stop posting in this thread. Great post.

 

Take you half-baked bball knowledge and GTFOH.

 

If you don't like math and statistics you're in for a rough ride with the Rockets. The whole "shoot 3's and layups" idea is from a statistical look at the game.

 

You like twisting words, LOL? Who's talking about shooting 3s and layups. Were strictly talking about why the starters should or shouldn't come back in with a 9 pts deficit. You don't need to do advanced math and statistics to calculate how many possessions is required for 9 pts. That wasn't even the point.

 

Not trying to twist words. Sorry if I didn't understand what you were saying. But a run of 10 points is perfectly possible with the starters; they had a 10-2 run in the first quarter.

 

First, the argument that the Starters played poorly in the early quarters is determinative of their play in the 4th quarter is a flawed concept.

There is no shortage of games where Lin, Harden and Parsons were off to rough starts and turned it up in the 4th quarter. This is why there is complaints about "slow starts".

Second, the previous score from 17 to 9 points down means nothing. The Starters are rested and the Bench has played 10 straight minutes. You're 9 points down, who do you go with? If the answer is not a line up including at least SOME of the Starters, then your answer is flawed.

Asik's skills do not rely on shooting. His paint defense doesn't get hot or cold. It is subject only to his health, fatigue and his match ups.

Parsons is one of our better defenders at the 3. There is no shortage of games where his shooting has been poor but his net contributions in other ways have been positive.

Lin and Harden have both shown the ability in multiple games to step up in the 2nd half of a game.

If you want to argue that one or more of the starters were having off nights and should remain benched, that's a debate worth having.

There is NO scenario where ALL of the Starters should have been benched unless you're actively trying to THROW the game.

You can't possibly be arguing that NONE of the 5 starters should have been on the floor. Asik especially should have been on the floor if they wanted the team to have a shot at a win.