ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Celtics 1/31/2005

my original intention in doing the minute by miute was not in defense of Sura....it was in defense of the entire team....for pages and pages before that post I had been reading all the b****ing about not going to Yao in the 3rd when after a good shooting frst half....

this first paragraph is important to understand why I went thru the trouble of detailing the first 6minute sof the 3rd...please re-read it to ensure you understand it

I knew from watching the game that it wasnt a matter of going away from Yao intentionally...just that there were many other factors involved in why nothing showed on the stat sheet for that quarter.

This is what has gotten to a few ppl....they automatically assumed that my entire post was a defense of Sura post....it wasnt...and when I tried to explain that...they would not listen....so I got a little testy.....considering the BS posts I read thru everyday here....most of them unwarranted....my testiness level is much increased....I am damn tired of reading posts that bash just to bash....alot of what is said has zero validity...

Do mistakes and bad decisions occur?

absofrickinlutely.....and if there is a play where a decision is made that turns out to be wrong...by all means...criticize....I wont say a word.

but many things that are said are not valid criticisms....alot of them seem to be made from reading the stat sheet or pbp....not from actually watching to see what happens on the court...I know this cause I watch every second of every game...and the only bias I post form is a love of the team...the Houston Rockets...I dont prefer one player over another...I like almost all of them...(Mo Im lookin at you)

Sometimes I am not as eloquent as I would like to be when making points...that is unfortunate since it leads to misunderstandings...but that is the way it goes sometimes...

My main beef is with people that state thei opinions as fact when it is obvious to anyone that they did not reach that opinion from the actions on the court.....and that irritates me....especially when others try to correcttheir misconceptions and they ignore the posts....

btw...I dont buy that "if alot of people say something it must be true"....alot of people get their info from what others say...and it isnt alwasy true....surely you see that...you have to ...you seem intelligent enough to see it...

just like the line you used....."Sura cares about his stats, very much"

what proof do you have that this is true??

I see this said alot, normally by the same ones that curse Sura's name as all that is wrong with Yao's play........but I have never seen by actions or words this year that Sura woudl go for his stats at the expense of the team play....not once......I want to see prooof before someone accuses him of doing that...cause if true...it would lower him in my eyes...I dont abide stathogging at the expense of the team....

Im not sure how much of that post was directed at me...if I missed some points...or was not clear on what I say...by all means..please ask me...Im normally pretty reasonable if you honestly want to discuss the game play...I enjoy that....I dont enjoy accusations based in bias that dont appear to be true...that irrtates me...and this forum deserves better.

 

Rockets2K, again, I appreciate your effort to provide videos, and layout stats and facts to discuss. I really do. I said before, I never question other people's motive, coz it's just unprovable.

But from some obvious facts, I can form my own opinion on certain matter. I never ever said anyone is intentionally freezing Yao out. It's just insane, how could it be? But, it's not good enough to say, it's tough, I will do the easy or safer way. Sometimes, you know what's right, and you should do it despite the difficulty. You have to involve the big fella to make the game flow, no matter he's Chinese, Indian, Canadian, American, or even Iraqi, a 7'6 guy in the paint, that's potential mismatch. Opponents are trying hard to deny the ball, because it's mismatch. don't you think we should try a little bit harder? Especially the point guard?

I didn't say if lots of people say so it must be true. I was saying, if lots of people say so, I would have look at it more carefully, instead of just dismiss others' ideas. Because, in fact, I could be wrong. yes, I could be wrong. At the time, Sura joined, I was very happy, coz I know his energy, same thing for Barry and Wesley. Now, I see some flaws in his game, I just believe I shall be allowed to point out, without any ill feeling against him.

 

You really seemed to enjoy the win last night it seems. And the fact that you like Yao better, theres where our grand canyon like gut of different perspectives starts to widen. I have no tie with any player over anyother. I honestly don't. I cant think of a player that I want to succeed over anyother. I just ****ing want the team to win man. And so I can't understand what you see and where you are coming from when you come with this stuff. I just wish you and others who feel the same way as you would show some consideration and not litter the game thread with that nitpicking and constant whining when the team plays so well and wins. Thats all I ask.

 

Sorry, your original intention was not presented, to say the least, clearly. You say you were defending the entire team, but who were in the team? Sura, our point guard, was the key ball distributor of the team, controlling the ball all the time. At the mean time, we also saw other members of the team has little or no problem passing to Yao.

it's no big deal when we get testy sometimes. You are a respected poster here, and I hope you don't question my manhood, or comprehension ability, or put me in your ignore list. please. peace.

 

Man, this thread just keeps getting better, this is my nightly entertainment now.

 

Thats not true. You gotta get stuff right some times. He brings the ball up court, and is the first passer of many passes, and looked to when things get funky - remember there is a clock going tick tick tick that must be beat. But to say Sura is the key ball distributor to our team and controls the ball all the time is just not accurate.

 

Please don't twist my words. I never ever said I wished Yao to succeed over his teammates. I just said I liked him better. I feel I am entitled. Who can have a favourite player on a team, although he wishes the team succeed just as other fans. Why is this so hard to grasp for you? You don't have any favourite player on the team, that's fine. Why it's not ok with you for me to have a favourite player? Would it be problem with you if I also tell you that I liked Dream much better than Barkley? People are different. No need with that arrogant attitude, you guys this, and we that, and we are the right and standard ones. Littering the game thread, I think you are equally contributing. It was about last night's game, I noticed some plays, NOT happy with Sura's decision making, and pointed out. How am I nitpicking and littering this game thread? I explained my opinion with examples and facts, all you can do is giving me lecture to dismiss my points without even debating my facts. since when criticism becomes winning, just if it doesn't fit you? What do you mean we played so well? We let 16 points lead slip away with a blink. It was a hard fought win with some luck. Only if you could show some consideration and hide that superior attitude. That's all I ask.

 

The great divide.

 

^ Spell check.

 

Listen folks. All you can post in a game thread in times of a win is "great win", "Thanks for the big Mac".













In reality, Sura is so valuable right now, and a savior to some folks only because ROckets are full of imcompetent PFs, not so energetic grandpas, a try-too-hard wimp boy center, a sleepy-eyed superstar, and they are so depleted in the PG position. Put him in another team, say detroit, he would have to come off the bench. That's all.

 

Hey, thanks.

 

texa stroke, u should reread real_egal post's second postand reread it again.

just in case you didnt understand, the gist of it was...

which translates to; why cant he point out suras faults without being a Hater or YOF etc??whats the big crime in saying Sura could be better or as he states

You never answer this question, but instead continue to attack him. I dont know about u, but i dont see anything wrong with saying that, just as its normal for ppl to wish yao was better at rebounding etc or tmac would take it to the hole more etc.

So instead of answering his question or debating if sura has these probems or limitations, you first question whether he criticizes yao, implying that he doesnt then you merely refute his claims as some obsessive single purpose nitpicking instead of a mere observation, or as u state

Well i dont know real egal so i cant say that he is "nitpicking and looking for faults intentionally" or that its what he "gets out of watching games" Since i DO NOT KNOW HIM, I wouldnt make that assertion just as those who cry sura conspiracy shouldnt. Instead Ill look at his post for what it is, constructive criticism of a Rocket player.

Oh and last i heard constructive criticism does not make one a hater or Yof or any other stupid ofer.

 

Forget examples and facts and just be straight with me. Thats all I ask. You like Yao better, for what reason?

And what I mean by we played well is we played well. You know maybe it just me but I'd say 27 assists and 12 turnovers and holding a good Boston team at home to 7 points under their average is playing pretty damn well. The way things are in the NBA, a little luck as you so unapperciatevly call it, is usually what seperates the winners from the losers. But maybe it was luck since half the Rockets team is Irish and they were in Boston.

 

Gotta side with real_gael. Every fan of a team could have a few
favorite players on that team. It's silly to ask why. You can like all
players equally, but that's just you. Dont ask others to follow you.

 

You want to know why Yao is my favourite player on the current Rockets Team? There are couple of reasons: he was born in the same city as I was born, there is a natural bound for me. He's so tall and yet he can hit a jumper, to play some finesse game, so refreshing as a center. He's a humble gentle young man, who's very team-oriented, I happen to like those qualities a lot in a person, and it's also refreshing in a me-first environment in NBA. I happen to believe that you need some quality in the paint to be able to win it all. It's been too long since Rockets' only two titles. That time, it happened to be a huge impact from a quality big man. Those are the reasons I like Yao better, he's my favourite player on the team. Just for your information, I liked T-Mac since his Toronto days, and I wished we could keep him instead of VC at the time. But comparing to Yao, I still like Yao better.

Now, you are clear of the reasons why I like Yao better. Please forgive my rudeness to ask, why it's important to you? Do those reasons make my arguments less creditible? If so, how and why? I wish you could be straight with me. If you say, I just don't believe and don't want to read anything from a guy whose favourite player is Yao. Fine with me, if that's the case, this would be my final reply to you.

 

1st) I dont recall accusing you of not being able to form your own opinion...but you have to realize that when I go on a rant..it is normally a buildup of being irritated at many different posters....that is why I try to be as general as possible when ranting...unless there is one person in particular that I am talking to...and then I normally have specific things that I want to mention...and those things are may be said or done by more...but at that time I am probably taking someone specific to task.

2nd) I dont argue that Yao shoudnt be more involved....but I also can watch a game and see what the defense does to make it difficult to accomplish this worthy goal...another thng I can see is that you can not force feed him every play....there is a reason why each play has multiple options that change how the play accomplishes the goal(a score).....if you come down the floor...and said play's first option is to go to your center...and your center is not able to get his position because of the opponent's defense, you dont have time to keep tryin to make the first option work....you must move on to the next....

see..this is where we have problems....I do attempt to understand why criticisms are made.....I just dont see them as they are described by some here....it isnt that I dont look...it is that I looked and think they are wrong...

I never said one cant point out flaws...didnt I say that in my last post??

it is the unfair criticisms, and the ones that have no basis in fact(which can be easily determined by watching the play on the court) that I have problems with....
.I have the ability to rewatch any part of the game at any time(as do others that record them)...so..when there is a specific criticism that I dont think is correct...I go back to the tape...the tape doesnt lie..it doesnt have a bias....it only shows you what happened....and if I see something that hasnt been mentioned...I try to point it out....I never see anyone try to argue what is on the tape.....they ignore it and continue making the allegations that by this time I know are untrue.....and it irritates me that they refuse to even discuss it.....so I figger that they dont want to discuss it cause they know they will be shown as wrong...and they cant take that.

did I manage to explain it clearly?

 

Thats all I wanted to know. Hope you get some enjoyment out of a win every now and then.

 

Clutch, if you have the time we would love to hear your recap of the game. especially since that was one of the better games of the year.