ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Bulls 12/22/2007

If they can shoot so poorly for most of the season, was the shooting in these last two games an aberration or the beginning of an offensive turnaround? I hope it's the latter! We'll see tomorrow night.

The hopeful thing is... they've been getting good looks lately but just missing everything. Tonight we made our layups, our free throws, AND our 3's.

If we can do 2 out of those 3 tomorrow night we should win again.

 

To to remind you that we need a Playmaking Point Guard. AB could possibly be what we are looking for.Y

 

I have a feeling you were wrong about my Bulls' knowledge. I am more convinced now that you don't know any more about this team than I do and quite possibly less. What you stated above is very surface level data.

How many Bulls games have you watched over the last 3 or 4 years? I would say I have watched part or all of 30-40 games. I regularly follow all teams through NBA League Pass, ESPN and multiple online sources. I am still not sure why you made the statement that I know nothing about the Bulls. I have seen nothing to make me think that you know as much as me.

WGN is fine but I NBA League pass gives you full access to all games. I have been getting League Pass now for the last 4 years. I thought you were from Chicago, in which case I would have conceded that you knew more about them for geographic reasons.

You are acting like an expert and making bold statements about my knowledge based on nothing more than assumptions.

The first statement I made in which you responded to by saying that I know nothing about the Bulls was based on pure statistics and gave you no evidence that I lacked knowledge of the team. You lose credibility for your rash judgments and wild assumptions.

 

they should have traded for Keven Garnett.

If Skiles is on his way out, this could be a good team for JVG to land. they need someone to kick them in the nuts.

 

Skiles does plenty of nut-kicking. That is not his problem. If anything, JVG would have more experience while representing a much more logical transition for the Bulls than JVG to Adelman did for the Rockets.

 

I loved the way Scola played tonight. He hustles every night for the rebound, but tonight he was just an absolute beast on the offense board. He still needs to work heavily on his fouling though, especially on the ones where he sends the other player to the line.

 

You lost credibility when you judged this Bulls team by what they do "perennially". They are still mired in the mud right now and aren't playing anything like their reputation. The hard-nosed, tough defense, hustling, etc ain't there now. If you consider what I posted "surface data", then fine. In a Rockets game thread, that's about as far as I'll go. Check the NBA Dish. Maybe I'll start another "Fire Hinrich" thread just for you.

I guess I don't follow all teams like you do, just a few, the Bulls "perennially" being my 2nd favorite team in the NBA after the Rockets. I'm just tired of watching them crash on a regular basis for various reasons. Again, if you want, start a thread in the Dish and we can discuss further. FWIW, I don't know how many Bulls games I've watched (in part or full) the last 3-4 years. I'd say about 90-100 or more. For the most part, I only watch specific NBA teams that interest me.

 

I think Skiles needs to go at the end of the season. It's time for a change. If they continue winning only ~1/3 of their games, he should be fired sooner. There isn't a more classic case of not getting the most out of talent. Yes they have roster problems but this is ridiculous. The players just dislike him too much.

 

In this win, the one area the team really improved on that really stood out was the rebounding, unlike their last game with the Nuggets in which they yielded 27 offensive rebounds. The Rockets yielded only 12 offensive rebounds, grabbed 20 offensive rebounds themselves, and outrebounded the Bulls 50-34 overall, which will get it done most of the time.

If the team can play that solid on the boards tonight against the Pistons, then I would like their chances of winning that game as well.

 

My observations:

1. If Bonzi had played like this last year we wouldnt have been eliminated in the first round. Adleman, unlike JVG, gave him time to play himself in shape and the man has responded. Its not just he fact that he scores, its how he does it. He attacks the rim. He doesnt wuss away from contact. Im glad he is still on the team.

2. Aaron Brooks and Luther have more than earned their minutes. Unlike Mike and Steve they are young, healthy and wanting to show they deserve to be in the NBA. Rafer and Shane better watch their backs.

3. Happy to see Scola get more touches. He is not gonna produce if he isnt reasonably involved in the offense. When he was hot early in the year they "rewarded" him with 1-3 touches per game and he lost his rithym and his confidence. Sadly, because Tmac is gonna play most of the game Bonzi has been getting a lot of his minutes from the pf position and that may not change. My preference is for him, Yao and Hayes to rotate on the 4 and the 5 like earlier in the year.

4. The Pistons game can turn this season around. If our small bench lineup can compete at a high level and we get the win our rotation will finally be set. Mike, Steve and Snyder just missed the bus.

 

Ok, now that is some evidence about your knowledge. If you watched that many games, I will concede that you have a slightly better feel for that team.

But to initially respond to me with "You know nothing about the Bulls" was not only false but also a wild assumption which led to me defending myself.

That may just be your way of thinking though given that you made another sweeping generalization above about the Bulls. To say that there is none of their tough-nosed defense left this year is plain wrong. They are still among the elite defenisve teams statistically. For a team that is at or near the top of defensive categories PERENNIALLY that made few roster changes and has the same coach as last year, this is a downgrade but they are certainly still a very good defensive team.

For an expert, you are wrong to be pointing at defense as their problem. Being in or near the top 5 in several defensive categories hardly sounds like a team that is totally lacking tough-nosed defense.

The bigger problem, which you totally omitted, is their terrible shooting. They are last in the league this season, led mostly by Hinrich and Gordon shooting poorly. Deng is still doing his thing on most nights and Nocioni has been great all year.

The main problem is their starting guard play, specifically on the offensive end. They will start shooting better as the season progresses and they get over whatever is in their heads (Kobe talk, trade rumors, coaching issues, etc...). Maybe, despite Gordon's wishes, they would do better having Gordon back in his 6th man role. They used to try to get him to accept that the team performs better when they can use him as an offensive spark off the bench.

Similarly to Ginobili, Stackhouse, Wells, Nachbar, Delfino, Kleiza, Harpring, House, Barbosa, Childress, Dooling and several others, Gordon may ultimately be best suited in a 6th man role. He is not an ideal PG, and like Head (I am not saying Head is nearly as good of a shooter or player), lacks the size and defensive skills to be a typical starting SG. His shooting is incredibly clutch and when he is on, he can take over a game. This may end up being a change that serves best for the success of this team. I imagine it will happen at some point this season given the team struggles.

Their team defense is still good this year and the same players are out there as last year with the exception of Deng who missed a few games and Wallace recently.

The Bulls were one of the better East teams last year and have undergone far less change than the Rockets and many other teams so, despite the improvement of the Celtics and Magic, I strongly feel this team will be in the playoff picture. If I were to guess, I would say they will be at best a 4 seed and at worst a 7 seed. There are still well over 50 games left in the season and, as you know, the Bulls are a team that typically struggles to start the season, in part due to their long "circus" road trip.

The Bulls will start playing better and they will be in the playoffs pending any disasterous injuries. Hinrich will start playing better and whether Gordon starts or returns to his 6th man role he, too, will get it going at some point.

 

Nice win for the Rockets! It ws nice seeing brooks getting some playing time. We could use some quickness every now and then.

 

Good point. Good rebounding team typically fair well even when they lack in other areas.

The Cavs and Rockets are examples of teams that have overachieved record-wise by crashing the boards.

The Jazz are also a great rebounding team with a well-balanced offense engineered by none other than Mr. Sloan and they became an elite team last season.

Winning on the boards is typically a very good way to win a lot of games in this league.

 

Response to point 1: Bonzi was also fresh off the contract disaster at the beginning of last season and came into camp incredibly out of shape. This season he dropped a lot of weight before camp and will be a FA after this season. You can't simply blame JVG for what happened with Bonzi last season. Look what Adelman did with Francis this year. It was eerily similar to the Bonzi situation except Adelman's temperment prevented more of a personal clash between Steve and himself. Adelman may have played Bonzi slightly more last season but ultimately, Bonzi was responsible for most of what happened last year. And, JVG did eventually try to give him time but Bonzi was still out of shape and suffered additional injuries, part of which were tied to his conditioning.

Response to point 3: Bonzi has been playing mostly at the 3 this season. Occasionally, he plays at the 4 when there are favorable matchups as was the case against the Nuggets and the Grizzlies (I still can't believe they put Navarro on him at one point). Scola has been getting solid minutes in his first season and Adelman clearly likes what Scola brings to this team. Scola will continue to improve and get more minutes during the course of the season. In fact, he is already averaging nearly 19mpg to Hayes' 22mpg.

 

Last post because I don't want to hijack the thread:

Your statement about this Bulls team based on prior years was something I would expect from someone who hasn't watched them much. This year's team has many of the same players (plus the coach), but they are NOT the same team. I assure you of that. This is why I said you don't know anything about them. If you can't understand that keeping things intact doesn't necessarily mean the team will perform the same, then OK.

Their offensive problems have been broken down ad naseum. IMO, the fact that virtually every returning player is worse off than last year leads me to blame Skiles. Just like he worn thin in Phoenix, it's happening in Chicago. He's had spats with too many players and things are stale. However, Nocioni has been a breath of fresh air. He's playing well and ticking off other teams with, well, you know what he does.

You are totally correct on Gordon but he must accept a 6th man role. If he played on a great team or played for a coach he respected, I think he would. But Skiles has been a big drag on his career. Few players loathe their coach as much as Gordon does Skiles (and I don't blame him). At the same time, Gordon's poor decision making (Hinrich too) late in close games just kills them.

Maybe I'm being a pessimistic fan but I'm not sure they will turn it around this season. I'm sick and tired of the disastrous starts and sick of throwing my hands up in the air when they can't hit an outside shot and have nobody inside to give the ball to. This team has gone as far as it can. Time to try some new ingredients.

 

great game, everyone played awesome!!!

 

You don't know anything about the Bulls!

 

LOL! I know less about the Rockets. Scary.

 

Bonzi is playing for contract. He had a good shooting night. We will see. But I agree his success is important to this team right now. But Chicago's defense on Bonzi, oh well, let's just say Mew.

Scola needs to make that open jumper at least around 50% clip. It is wide open, and not that far away from the basket either.

 

Im not blaming JVG. I actually dont care who was at fault. The important thing is that Bonzi is finally producing and im happy thats the case.

As for the issue of Scola's minutes, i dont agree. Bonzi was not playing at the 4 at all until recently. His strong play off the bench obviously made Adleman want to find him more minutes which is hard since he plays behind Tmac. For that reason he has been the first guy off the bench in the last couple of weeks and its always Hayes he replaces. Scola then will come in when Yao sits. When Yao comes back THEN Scola slides to the 4.

I believe Adleman does indeed appreciate what Scola brings to the table but so far i dont think he has done a good job of keeping him involved. It seems he expects Scola to assert himself until his teammates cant ignore him anymore. Whether that will work better on the long run remains to be seen. I would rather he gets at least a consistent 5-6 shots a game. Its hard for a scorer like him to go from say 15 shots a game his entire career(remember he is 27) to being lucky to get 4. Its no wonder he has struggled with his shot.