ClutchFans Game Thread: Pistons @ Rockets 12/6/2003

what's happening here? after last night's great game, i thought i would see a lot of happy faces here. i clicked last page, and saw somebody from Saigon talking about his asian a$$?!

michecon, you are probably right. i'm out of here.

 

Thanks for taking this thread back to bball, but i beg to differ on your analysis...stats do lie sometimes, but if you want to look at stats, you'll notice that in the Midwest (where not one team is below .500), we've played on the road the most.

We're 5-6 on the road.

The 2 teams ranked higher than us in our division are Denver (which we beat by the way) and Dallas, 4-5 and 2-6 respectively...And Utah 1-6 on the road...

So all in all, even though we've had a couple really poor road games, we're definitely top 5 material in the West in my book...at this point at least...

 

I'm sure noone(new or old fans) cares about there being alot of new Rockets fans or posters to the BBS, even if many of the new fans ARE Yao-only fans. I know I appreciate the growing Rockets fan base. Even Yao-only fans.

As I've said before, the problem arises when, posters(usually new and usually YOF's) talk like Yao is a saint and can do no wrong. Yao has a long, long way to go before he can carry this team. He may never carry this team. Yao makes mistakes just like Cuttino, Francis, Cato, Moochie and every other player on the court. No single player on the Rockets is greater than the team, no matter how tall, how quick or how smart they are. Unfortunately some posters(again, usually new and usually YOF's) often imply that Yao is above the team and above criticism. Until these posters leave or start becoming more objective regarding Yao and the ENTIRE TEAM, these stupid arguments are going to go on.

 

Yo i loved the rockets before they got steve or yao, but now im both their fan and even if they go i will still watch the rox

 

RocketsPimp, no offense here, but I think maybe you are just wasting your time here. No matter how hard you try, this will still continue. As you said, everyday there are many new fans or new posters joining this BBS because of Yao, Steve or even JVG. If everytime you see such comments and you want to argue it everytime, I think you may have a long long way to go either

I don't understand why it is so hard for some senior posters like you, Texas Stoke and David S to just ignore the post you don't like, espeically it is such an ancient arguement which has been discussed million times. If I see some comments I dislike or laughable, I will just skip it, skip it, skip it.

After last game I thought everybody would be happy, Yao rebound well, SF dished the ball like true ALL STAR point guard, Mo Taylor had performance we hadn't seen for years and he was consistent. Cato scored as many as Ben Wallace and defend him well. The team played pretty well and we did see them make progress. But what we got, half of the game thread became YOF arguement AGAIN.

Both sides, will you please stop this crap and ignore each other?

 

I have been Rockets fan since they brought the first professional sport title to Houston. Since then I has been tracking their record even I am In illinois now. No question after Hakeem left, rockets become so uncosistent, completely depending on two guards. Like Gold States about 8-10 years ago. have not got into playoff 4 years. I tried to watch them a few times, When you loved team lost and played like high school team, NO excitig at all. Yao definitely is Rockets hope. I know old fan or senior member has been annoying by "Yao only fan" . But is it necessary to disrepect them? Rockets is close to become Yao's team, JVG has done perfect job to teach those kids ( although not anymore, > 5 years NBA experience), But still long way to go. Yao has to develop kill spirit to lead this team. It will be most difficult job! First, it is culture difference, team first concept in Yao's mind. Another problem is Yao needs more time to figure out how aggressive he can be around the basket: Yao still hesitates to fight a rebound or dunk sometimes, maybe he is concerning opponet may hurt him. You know he comes from foreign country. Do we see any foreign NBA player is as aggressive or wild as some home NBA players? SO do not expect Yao will do it as Oneal, or Barkley does or did. They concern those home NBA player are already jealous on them. DO you rembmer some NBA playes' response when Yao was selected as overall #1? Barkley's and Oneal's opinions are very representive actualy. Only them dare to spoke out. Yao was not selected to be Rookie or co-rookie very much said about that.
DO not ecpect two guards can bring this team to anywhere if Yao does not become major focus on offence. Last four years record already show it so clearly, Not necessary to defend anything.
I like to be rockets fan forever, but if they keep losing, I may jus ttrack their record once a week or a month. I can not tolerate loss for so longer. Sorry, i am not that kind fan, does matter what they do, still their fan. May be it is because I am not in Houstoon anymore, I can offer to do it.

 

Yea, go be an Orlando fan...

 

Stoke, rockets are 12-7

 

I'm sure some fans on this forum appreciate the valuable info such as translation of Yao's dairy that the new fans bring to the table.

 

Maybe what I said came out wrong, but that's basically what I was trying to get at.....that most of the people here don't see the new fans as a negative thing, but rather a positive because of the new exposure and attention the Rockets are getting.

 

I concede that we've had a more difficult road schedule than home schedule(vs the West), but the Lakers(6-3), T-Wolves(7-4), Sonics(4-2) and Grizzlies(6-5) are winning on the road. Playoff teams have to win on the road, especially in their division.

There simply are no excuses for losses!

Top 5 in your book?? The fact that we are currently in 5th place in the West wouldn't have anything to do with that would it?

 

It does, but apart from LA, Sacramento and Dallas, i believe our team is right there behind...and i'm not sure how to rate Indiana yet...I don't believe the Jazz are better then the Rockets, and neither are the Sonics or Blazers...wait 'til Portland comes to town...

 

and Indiana isn't even in the west

 

Pimp, I agree with you the principle you stated, but not the coverage. It's purely your perception that "usually YOF's...". In my humble opinion, as I have been working as an independent, unbiased professional for many years, there are almost as many Francis lovers here who do not like people criticising Francis.

It's simply human nature and nothing is wrong with that. Also, that does not mean you should single out others as YOF. My judgment is, most posters have their own favourate player; and it does not matter whether that is Yao, Francis or someone else, most of them want Rocket to win. IT IS ALSO HUMAN NATURE THAT YOU WANT YOUR IDOL WIN THE GAME, BREAK INTO PLAYOFF AND WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. It is unlikely the majority of Yao or Francis lovers want the team to go down. That is clearly good for Rocket with such a strong, growing fan base.

The detrimental argument is, therefore, to sterotype the majority of fans, just because of one or two posters who one-heartedly support his/her favourite player to the extreme, as YOFs.

Further, when you feel other fans could not take the criticism against Yao, that is your opinion. Clearly, you have the freedom to express your opinion. By the same token, you should allow freedom to others to express their opinions. What you feel Yao's deficiency may not necessarily be felt the same way by other posters. The same couild be said when someone criticises Francis or other players.

It is only a little bit annoying when someone keeps bashing Rocket players unduely all the time. But believe me, that's only a very minority of posters in this forum. If you can keep your mind open a little more and look at that from different angles, you will see that light, my friend.

By the way, you definitely should not label me as YOF. I followed Francis even before he became a Rocket. Yet, I must admit I support Yao equally well. And sometimes I criticised Francis or Yao on a specific day just because his or their performance around that point of time did not meet my expectation. Those criticism were constructive. Also, that was what fans all about. The next day, when he or they performed well, you were so happy and might regret how much you criticised him/them the day before. And if you label someone as YOF at the point of time he criticised Francis, you are clearly off the mark.

 

This is the way to feel about it. I realy dislike the posters that have drawn lines forming one camp or another.

 

Totally agree. I logged on to read some comments on the game and share in the joy of a big win against a tough team with a wining record and instead, am greeted by Texas Stoke's version of a Rush Limbaugh rant against some mild Yao cheering. The comments made by him were totally out of context and unnecessarily offensive when compared to what came before. Critical comments are the lifesblood of any good BBS but there are ways to make a point without needlessly offending a lot of good folk who come here. It seems that some people are taking Clutch's request for a more civil forum a little bit too much to heart and have appointed themselves Forum-Nazi's willing to go to any extent to attack and be-little posters who stray from the conventional path. Some of these posts are racially tinged as if citing the race of the posters was going to somehow enlighten them on some given point instead of inflaming things even more. With these types of posts and xenophobic threads imploring Yao-only fans to go jump in the river or to declare their allegiance, these "Defenders of the True Faith" have created a very negative atmosphere in this BBS conducive to petty sniping and off-topic posting that is destroying the readability of this forum. Yes, Yao only fans can get annoying real fast but try a little patience and reason in dealing with them and ignore them when that fails. I've personally had a lot of fun reading and participating in this forum the last 2 years but I am becoming less enthused to come here because of the crap and hate that I know that I will have to wade through. I am sure alot of other members feel the same way and this is too bad as we are in sight of a potential breakthrough season and this fact should be uniting fans from all throughout the spectrum instead of splintering us into so many bickering micro-factions.

 

Ironically, I think Yao-only fans are good for Francis's reputation, too. Many "old timers" who used to criticize Francis constantly, seem to be positively incensed when the Yao-only fans do the same thing.

 

Man, do you forget Spurs and Timberwolves? Spurs will catch up sooner or later. Fighting for the last three spots is ROX's destine, and I believe ROX will make it in the end, though many heart breaking games are waiting for us.

 

http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/postgame_quotes.html

Postgame Quotes


PISTONS.COM
PLAYER OF THE GAME
Yao Ming

Points: 22
Rebounds: 20
Blocks: 4
Minutes: 40



Pistons Head Coach Larry Brown


On the game:
"We didn’t shoot well but maybe Houston had something to do with it. Our first team didn’t defend well at the beginning but everyone kept playing hard and we gave ourselves a chance to win. We fought back and kept competing. We went small and Houston took advantage of that. We shot so many outside shots and they kept getting key rebounds."

On the Rockets:
"Yao is a tremendous player and he had a great game. Houston did a great job and they kept us outside and that was the key to the game. This (Houston) is a very good team and you have to play your best to win."


Pistons Center Elden Campbell


On defending Yao Ming:
"He played well and he was hitting his shots. I had him where I wanted him, outside, but he was just shooting over me. You get good position on him and then he was hitting shots over me. He got the best of me tonight."

On the difference in the Rockets this year:
"The big difference is Yao and Cato are playing really well and with Taylor added to the front line, they are a better team. They are more deliberate but they still punch it inside. Last year I thought they would play this way but it just didn’t happen."


Pistons Forward Ben Wallace


On Yao Ming:
"Yao Ming had a great game. A 20-20 ( 20 points, 20 rebounds) is as good as it gets in the NBA."

On the game:
"We fought so hard to get back into the game we wore ourselves out. When you start off slowly and have to fight back, it takes a lot out of you."

On the Pistons play this season:
"We have to try and continue to get better. I am alright where we are, but I’m not content."


Pistons Guard Richard Hamilton


On the key to the game:
"Houston got out on top early and they were making their shots. Yao dictated the game on both ends of the court. He has definitely improved and he’s adjusted and did a great job."

On the Rockets:
"Houston is definitely a better defensive team with a much better defensive mentality this year."

On the Pistons play this season:
"We feel good about our team but wish we could be better. Our team needs to continue to grow and get more used to coach’s system."


Pistons Guard Chauncey Billups


On the game:
"Houston got off and set the tone in the first quarter and we let them do what they wanted to do and get the shots they wanted."

On the Rockets play:
"Houston is a lot better (this season). They are playing defense and that is what they lacked last year. They have great talent with the big kid (Yao Ming) and Stevie (Francis) and Cuttino (Mobley). Houston will be a team to watch out for."


Rockets Head Coach Jeff Van Gundy


On why the offense slowed down after the fast start:
"Steve (Francis) in the 1st half really created a lot of great shots for everybody; did a great job. When he got in foul trouble, we sort of leveled off and then when he came back in, played well again offensively and then in the 2nd half, shot 8 of 15 from the line, they played good defense, so they were into us pretty hard."

On Yao Ming’s rebounding and shot blocking/changing:
"I thought our whole front line, our 3 guys, played great last night, great effort, and tonight, again, great effort. I can’t say enough about those 3 guys they just played really hard the last 2 nights and got a lot done. So they did a great job, absolutely."

On Kelvin Cato taking it to the hole instead of shooting jump shots:
"Some of those are a function of offense, and what teams give you. (Kelvin) Cato’s a good enough shooter to make a 15-footer, probably 17-18 feet is a step outside. I thought more importantly that he was much more active defensively, and the last 2 teams have been more conducive to who he is. He wasn’t chasing around Andrei Kirilenko, who’s a 3 playing a 4. Kelvin’s (Cato) done a good job all year."

On whether this was more of a complete game than has been shown all season:
"I thought last night was very good. I know we always have corrections to make, but I’m not going to get into a great number of judging every one of them. But we played 2 good teams the last 2 nights and found a way to win and that’s good."

On how satisfied he is with offense and defense:
"Completely."

On whether Yao Ming’s rebounding took Detroit out of their game:
"They have a 3.1 rebound differential. As I was telling the team before the game, not known to most is that Mehmet Okur is a better per minute rebounding than (Ben) Wallace. Wallace averages 13 in 40 minutes, and Okur averages 8 in 24. Both are outstanding rebounders; they’ve got a lot of size and use it well. A typical Larry Brown team. Tough defensively and on the boards. Same as last night, I thought we rebounded well against a very good rebounding New Orleans team and I thought again Jim (Jackson) coming up with 8 last night and 6 tonight, and our big guys doing their job, we need to be a gang rebounding team."


Rockets Forward Maurice Taylor


On rebounding being a key to tonight’s game:
"I thought going into the game that rebounding would be a big part of the game. We all knew that Detroit could rebound. All of us needed to have a good rebounding game and get some big boards."

On the Rockets success in the first quarter
"Offensively it was great there in the first quarter. I think we had seven straight fundamental trips down the court where we got a basket and that’s huge for us. I think that is some kind of record for the Rockets."


Rockets Guard Steve Francis


On tonight’s game:
"These are two of the best teams in the Eastern Conference (New Orleans and Detroit). We still haven’t played San Antonio and we haven’t played the Lakers. We played Dallas once and we played Sacramento once. Things are going to be tough, but I think we’re ready."

On the Rockets:
"We just have to take it one game at a time and I think the sky is the limit for this team. If we play like we played tonight, I don’t care who scores points, if we play like we played tonight with heart, despite their (Detroit’s) run near the end of the game, I think we’ll be in good shape."


Rockets Center Yao Ming


On the importance of rebounding tonight
"Out there, we all want to rebound, especially against a good rebounding team like Detroit. We all want to rebound. It doesn’t matter who ends up with the rebound. We all have to rebound. That is part of the game. I wanted to get a lot of rebounds tonight and I knew that we were playing a good rebounding team. It is my job to rebound."

 

a gang-bounding team