ClutchFans Game Thread: Pelicans @ Rockets 12/2/2015

All true. And part of this, Lawson needs to know he has the green light to be Lawson.

Have they tried a 1-2 pnr? That might be something to put in the toolbox.

 

they actually do 1-2 pnr a lot. Because Harden would rather take the matchup of the pg guarding Lawson.

 

Amen ^^^^

Previously Ty has just been James' outlet and spot up shooter mostly.
Standing around and spacing. That's not his forte.

We need Ty to be the true ball-handler and take that from James
(let him focus on his defense. lol)
Is that NOT what James requested at the end of last season?

Ty slashes/penetrates, gets D suckered into lane, kick to James
for open 3 or slash the lane himself with D out of position.
OR, Ty for P&R. We hardly see that much.

It is time to give Lawson the green light to run the team

 

As if assists are the only positive that comes from Harden's handling the ball. He is scoring like 30 points a game - few of those resulting from team members' assists.

 

If you score 30 and your man scores 30 it is not much of an advantage.

Harden can do more for the team by doing less on the ball.

DD

 

What you said was obviously true, but it doesn't further your point. We are discussing OFFENSE. How many points your man scores on you is DEFENSE. Unless your point (which you never stated) is that we need Lawson to handle the ball to allow Harden to conserve energy for defense, then this comment is out of place. And if that is the point you're trying to make, then why wouldn't Lawson's handling the ball all the time hurt Lawson's defense by this logic? I think you can just reduce Harden's minutes to get more energy and choose the ball handler based on the respective offensive effectiveness.

And I'm not advocating Harden as the ball handler. Just pointing out flaws in your arguments.

 

Harden's defensive issues seem to come from a lack of effort, energy, focus....things that supposedly have to do with him being worn down.

I've not known Lawson to have that particular issue. His defensive issues seem to come from lack of size/natural defensive ability.

Harden asked for another guard to take some ball handling duties. He has a capable guy. He should let him do it.

Also, It's not an either or thing. Neither guy has to be worn down by being the sole ball handler. They should share the duties and create a synergy so neither feels over burdened by handling the ball too much.

 

SMH that people trying to take the ball out of Harden's hands and put it in Lawsons', on the premise he is a better "creator".

Harden's career TOV%: 14.4%
Lawson's career TOV%: 15.2%

Here is a shocking fact: Harden takes better care of the ball than Lawson does.

 

smh that people think Harden is a PG. don't be surprised at the results they are seeing this year as long as this continues. If you think someone who averages 5 TO's a game is a better ball handler than an actual pg then you are sadly mistaken.

I know you've been pretty stern on the position of taking the ball out of Harden's hands but it needs to be done. Now I'm not saying to completely eliminate from having Harden have the ball to do what he does but to maximize the potential of this team he needs to allow others like Lawson to play to their strengths as well. He complains about playing high minutes which includes a huge workload. Well he needs to look at himself first and realize he has someone who he approved of to come in and help with that. There is no way Hardens workload should have increased with the addition of Lawson. And that's what we've seen this year with losing becoming pretty common.

 

No, I am not sadly mistaken. You simply have no idea what you are talking about.

Not sure what it is about Turnover % you don't understand.

TOV% is the % of time during a possession, the player turns the ball over. Saying "someone who averages 5 TO's a game" does nothing but display your ignorance about the game in general. It is a far superior statistic to Turnovers per Game.

If Lawson, were to handle the ball in an identical manner to Harden, the data here strongly predicts he will turn the ball over more.

You speak in nothing but rhetoric and it holds no value.

 

you want to use that TOV% yet what about the other variables that have an effect on this. that in no way is valid because harden and lawson have been on completely different teams in different situations up until now. The system your in, the players you play with, your role on the team all dramatically effect this. what matter's is this year and how this team is built. What's the TOV% for this team now? this goes back to the same discussion we had about Beverley. You believe Beverley is still the same defensive player he was years ago. Yet that's far from the truth. You want to post all these numbers yet fail to recognize that they can tell an entire story. You act like just because one stat shows something that automatically means it must be true and carry on throughout. And for that you are the one who shows ignorance.

 

Just not true - Lawson's turnovers to assist ratio is miles better than Hardens....

Harden has barely above 1 to 1 in his career - just because Harden Jacks up a bad shot, does not mean he is better with the ball....because all those chucks that are bad don't count as turnovers...though they are the same in result.

DD

 

You're right, lets use this years numbers, since that is how this team is built, even though it is completely intellectually dishonest.

2015-2016 Lawson TOV%: 21.8%
2015-2016 Harden TOV%: 14.9%

You are so hung up on the rhetoric of Harden being a SG and Lawson being a PG, you ignore anything and everything else.

Please tell me where I said Beverley was the same player he was years ago. I'll save you the trouble, I didn't. I said he was a defensive positive, and better than Lawson and Terry, which are both true. I also said Lawson needs to come off the bench, which is true, and is exactly what the Rockets did.

Frankly, I have no idea why you keep fighting me on this. How many times do I need to be proven right?

 

Assist to turnover ratio is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is the gross offensive output.

Harden doesn't wrack up as many assists because he looks to score. Lawson doesn't wrack as many points, because he looks to pass.

At the end of the day, both players are going to produce X number of points through passing, scoring and turning the ball over. We have that data, we know the answer to this, and it clearly favors Harden.

2014 - 2015 : Harden Points produced per Possession: 1.18
2014 - 2015 : Lawson Points produced per Possession: 1.13

2015 - 2016 : Harden Points produced per Possession: 1.08
2015 - 2016 : Lawson Points produced per Possession: .91

Stop this utter nonsense that Lawson is going to produce more points than Harden by passing more. He simply is not.

 

again posting with the advanced stats like they tell the entire story. advanced stats showed Dorsey would average double digit rebs given the minutes. Did you believe that was true too?

Lawson coming off the bench didnt solve anything. The rockets still have the same problems. Only reason he was moved there was because of harden's faults as a player which limits who he can play with. and frankly that's pretty sad if you cannot play with a pure pg.

 

So what's wrong with this picture. If harden looks to score why does he have the ball in his hands so much looking to create and at the same time score the most, while you have Lawson who looks to pass and create who does have the ball in his hands to do so. What is harden #1 strength, score the ball. What is Lawson's #1 strength to create. Does that maximize the personnel's abilities on this team. Nope.

 

Those stats you could certainly make the argument that Lawson should handle the ball more this year, like he did last year, since his offensive output then was better than Harden's this year.