ClutchFans Game Thread: Mavericks @ Rockets 10/23/2009 (PRESEASON)

You can't make the argument that Brooks is second rate, and you can't make the argument that Brooks is a backup point guard, so you are attempting to debate commas? In the GARM? That's rich! Brooks is the starting point for the Rockets. Scarcely anyone, except you, thinks that Brooks is second rate as the starting point for the team. Coach Adelman certainly doesn't agree, since he traded Rafer, a point guard who's description you used for Brooks, in order to make Mr. Brooks the starter. Is he ideal? Had you said Brooks was second rate as a defender, I wouldn't have argued the point, but that's not your contention.

As for putting me next to your plea for more rep points, be my guest. Clearly, attention is important to you. Whatever floats your boat.

 

For all the people that hate on brooks, please ask yourself this question. With the rockets lacking offensive ability more than ever before....Would it be wise to start lowry and hayes together, with battier?

Is anyone really that stupid?


Relax, even if tmac sucks when he comes back, he will act as somewhat of a playmaker, brooks will thrive, trust me.

Don't be so quick to show your players the door after a couple of preseason games.

 

Aaron Brooks is second rate, at best. I think everyone agrees with that. Except you apparently...

Shall I name the first rate PG's?

I see him as a "Bobby Jackson" type. I do not believe he is starter material because of his defense and court vision. Unless he plays with an elite 2-guard, in an uptempo system, he will struggle.

If Aaron Brooks is a first rate PG, Why did Daryl Morey go after Rubio?
(Because he COULD be first rate...)

I accept your apology for the attack (that was unwarranted) after YOU failed to read correctly.

 

Yup. I agree, It was just an idea...

Pat Riley would laugh his ass off most likely. Maybe the character issues and the winning potential they would have with Tracy, would be enough?

 

I am going to make you and Deckard very happy Clutchfans...

 

I agree with this. I think his talent is worth just about any role player that we have. He is a gamble for sure, but so is Stacy.

 

Oh wow, congrats to me. Still waiting for you to explain to me why comparing Beasley to Mo Taylor is SOOOO bad and that I know NOTHING about basketball for believing it. Humor me.

 

I certainly don't agree that Aaron Brooks is second rate and would like you to provide some data on why he is second rate. He certainly isn't an elite point guard and it is going to be his first full season as starter but it's amusing how people are already willing to get rid of him or degrade him. Also I would suggest not to speak for everyone. Why would we trade for Beasley at this point? We aren't in rebuild mode now and after the offseason I doubt we would trade for anyone who wasn't an already established all star.

 

Look at it from PR's standpoint.

Let's say he pulls that trade. The only way Pat Riley looks good is if either he wins a ring or if Beasley becomes a bust. Otherwise he has a lot of flak to take for that trade which will cost him. That's a big risk.

If he just stands pat and Beasley is a talent player but then goes south - no one will blame Pat Riley for his character issues. It's a much safer route to go.

Would you execute this trade if you were Pat? C'mon, anyone? Anyone? Ferris?

 

Hmmm, OK, I'll try. Here are the PG's that I would say are better than AB0.

First rate PG's.
--------------------------------
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Steve Nash
Chauncey Billups
Jason Kidd
Baron Davis
Gilbert Arenas
Derrick Rose
Tony Parker
Andre Miller
Devin Harris
Mo Williams
Jameer Nelson
Rajon Rondo

Second Rate PG's
------------------------------------------------
Monta Ellis(PG? Not really)
Kirk Hinrich
Mike Bibby
Aaron Brooks
Russell Westbrook(First tier potential)
Raymond Felton
Rodney Stuckey
DJ Augustin(First tier potential)
TJ Ford
Nate Robinson(His role is what AB's should be IMO)
Ramon Sessions
Jose Calderon(Efficient, but I think he is way overrated.)

Third Rate PG's
-------------------------------------------------------
Chris Duhon
Steve Blake
Derek Fisher
Louis Williams
Mario Chalmers
Rafer Alston

Fair enough?

I like your point about not rebuilding, And I do think that that is a possibility.

I am in the (Trade McGrady and get as much value as you can wagon) so I am not convinced that we should not package some of our roleplayers for a potential star. Fair enough If you don't think Beasley will be that, I do. We will see. He certainly isn't Mo Taylor

 

I might. They may struggle to retain DWade if they don't get some stability in Miami pronto. Battier/Ariza and Scoly alone would make that team instant contenders and would keep Dwade around for the longhaul I think. If we are rebuilding or not is not something we haven't debated several times before. Hmm.

 

To be even more specific, the elite PGs are CP3, D Will, Nash, Billups, and Parker.

Brooks is clearly not on their level; he's a second tier point guard

 

Rose is quickly climbing the ladder, and will soon be mentioned in the same breath as those 5. 2-3 years from now, it'll be CP3, D Will, and Rose at the top. Adelman occasionally gives Lowry the nod down the stretch, which tells you his lack of confidence in AB's defensive capabilities on stronger guards and his decision making; putting brooks' name along side CP3 is damn near criminal

 

I think it is crazy to compare those two. Sure, Beasley has his problems, but he has already put up a more productive, efficient season than Mo Tay ever did. That said, I always believed that Mo Tay could be an elite post scorer, but his complete package was light years away from a Michael Beasley in my opinion. We will see I guess.

 

Yup, you are right.

If I took a very detailed approach, Brooks would probably be 4th or 5th tier.

Hopefully he improves, but I just don't see his defense and court vision improving much.

 

Nope do not agree, you just can not stand that Brooks is the starter.

Well, those of us that know the game of basketball and have a good understanding of it, realize why.

One day, maybe we will let you into the club.....but probably not.

DD

 

You think Brooks is first tier?


Interesting...

Know the game? Like having played at a high level? Varsity? College? Overseas? How are you doing at your Y rec league DD?

96 screens? 6, 7, 8, 9 picks? 90 screens? 6 up?

You may watch the game of basketball, but I guarantee you, that you don't "know" it. Some of us spend our lives trying to understand it, and have probably forgotten more, than you will ever "know".

 

Wanna get into an endless stupid debate that will go around in infinite circles until one tires out from typing? Here are some sure fire ways:

1. Get into any debate with DD basketball related. The more you mention Von Wafer, Vspan, and the word efficiency, the longer you're torture is. Edit: Wanna see him disappear from a debate? Discuss about Matt Schaub after he has a great game and leads the Texans to a victory.

2. Get into any debate with knote32 about Kevin Garnett, Kyle Lowry, Aaron Brooks, and Stephen Jackson. And also Michael Beasley. Call him a shameless rep slut for broadcasting his rep points. Call him a Jr. DD, he'll love that.

3. Get into any debate about Shane Battier with Kwame and leebigez. With Kwame you'll get the same monolithic paragraphs that he seemingly copies and pastes from his past Battier spews, with lee he'll spawn into DeAndre Jordan, Matt Barnes, and Ricky Davis diatribes.

4. Talk negative about Iphones, Macs, and Longhorns with ItsMyFault.

EDIT: Edited for knote's latest player mancrush. And a ultra rare way to make DD disappear from a debate.

 

I'm not going to derail this post about your ranking of different tiered PGs, but Derek Fisher as 3rd tier? Wow.

I realize on internet forums posts aren't often made in reality, but what's the point of bringing up Beasley? Why not just go for Chris Paul or Derrick Rose? If we were going to make a move with our PGs, it would have already been done. I have confidence that Roxs would pull the trigger if something came up but it is looking very unlikely we are going to do anything but keep our PGs this season.

I like AB and am very curious to how he will perform this season, now that he is the starting PG of a full season. I like AB and Lowry on the Roxs. AB, I expect him to average 15 ppg at the very minimum and have quite a few 20+ games because we need him to score. Lowry, I expect him to distribute the ball well and get to the free throw line but not post but a handful of 20+ games at the max. I doubt he is going to go to the free throw line as much as he did in the preseason and I doubt AB will play like he did in the preseason.

Right now, I am in the lets wait and see what TMAC can do and what we can get for TMAC wagon. It doesn't make sense, in my mind, to break the team up so we can get an all star. This year is an experiment, because Yao is expected to at least make a come back next season and remain a Rocket. If something comes along worth it, I have faith in Morey. I also, have faith in Morey in not pushing things like so many people on here do with their crazy trade ideas.

 

You forgot Michael Beasley... G-Unit...