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ClutchFans Game Thread: Heat @ Rockets 2/21/2007

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Clutch, Feb 19, 2007.

  1. Vivid

    Vivid Member

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    Agreed...I love how Walton mentioned that early in Yao's career Yao would be one of the rare centers that looked forward to playing Shaq and in fact did pretty well...Yao is now the best low post in the game and Shaq can't even handle a backup (not saying much there though...Deke is a beast).
     
  2. lunaticrocket

    lunaticrocket Rookie

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    The Rockets must be a bad luck charm for the Heat. First Shaq, now DWade. Hey, in just two games the Rockets might have (unintentionally, of course) eliminated the NBA champions from the playoffs.
     
  3. doublehh03

    doublehh03 Member

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    i just saw on the chron that this Sunday's game is on ABC but i checked the schedule and it's the LATER game vs orlando (2nd game in a few weeks) that is on ABC?

    what's goin on?
     
  4. Tfor3

    Tfor3 Member

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    great win. I have not seen the game, just highlights. It is sitting on my dvr waiting for me tomorrow. Can't wait for yao to come back and PLEASE everyone else on roxs stay healthy.
     
  5. kawins

    kawins Member

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    Rox still blew them out in Miami and killed them in Houston.
     
  6. Barkley

    Barkley Member

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    I know the gane will be on PPMate on NBA China, but as you know PPMate is working badly
     
  7. kerwin yang

    kerwin yang New Member

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    it's a great game, i like it. again, rox men defended TOYOTO center
     
  8. arbpro

    arbpro Member

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    It's getting tougher for the "haters" to hate. Early in the year all you heard was "TMac has no fire, he's finished," and "Juwan is a relic, a complete joke of a player." All those haters are now on permanent vacation. Then we had our usual round of JVG bashing. That became increasingly muted as the Rockets were putting up a 68% winning percentage without Yao. So all the haters turned their attention to Rafer. Rafer got dragged through the mud and thread after thread was created to emphasize that the Rockets needed to trade for a pg, because Rafer couldn't get it done. I have said throughout the year that Rafer IS NOT A PROBLEM, just like I said about JHoward, and I got my share of replies that I did not know what I was talking about. Well, you saw Rafer last night, assists high - turnovers low. Hitting the 3 and giving up the ball to TMac to create. And the best will not come until Yao returns. Rafer is right for this team. He understands his role, plays average defense, and is NOT A PROBLEM. Now all you Rafer haters can go into hiding.
     
  9. Dei

    Dei Member

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    The guy's 40 - and one of the most decent, humane and compassionate players still active and they're all still doing that?
     
  10. qrui

    qrui Member

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    i think he meant shaq. :)
     
  11. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    It's also on Sopcast and TVU which are better.
     
  12. Barkley

    Barkley Member

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    Oh sorry. I'm wrong. I forget. Game with Atlanta will be on CCTV5. Game with Celtics will be on NBA China
     
  13. Rox225

    Rox225 Member

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    Rafer did have a, dare I say, great game last night, but we still need a backup PG. There is nothing you can say that will convince me that not having a viable backup PG is a smart thing going into the playoff's. He is not a problem when he's playing 30 minutes or less. I do feel comfortable with him handling the ball for most of the game, just not in tight game situations. Oh, and if you've been defending Rafer this whole time then much respect. Hopefully games like these become more common place rather than the exception to the rule.
     
  14. rrj_gamz

    rrj_gamz Member

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    Great win...Let's hope this is a start to a new streak...
     
  15. arbpro

    arbpro Member

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    I don't think I really have been "defending" Rafer or Howard. I simply said to all the critics, "They are veterans, they know their roles, they are able to offensively perform their roles, and they are average defensively. THEY ARE NOT PROBLEMS." The Rockets have built a team that will fail/succeed based upon TMac and Yao. Rafer's role is simple - limit turnovers, log minutes, get the ball to the stars. He does that and anything else is gravy at that position. So I really have never said that Rafer is an all-star or that he is the reason that the Rockets have the record they have. He just does his job and that is ALL the Rockets' management wants from him. They are fully willing to roll the dice with TMac and Yao and so am I.

    With respect to your, and many others pleadings that the Rockets get a backup pg, I respectfully think that is nonsense. This team needs to keep Luther Head on the floor for 20+ minutes. He is a winner, with ice water in his veins, anxious to take the shot that decides games. IF you bring in a backup pg you are taking minutes away from Head, because then you create a huge longjam at sg - Bonzi, TMac, Snyder, Head. I would much rather have those 4 guys on the floor than some scrub from some loser team taking minutes from Bonzi, Head and Snyder.

    I like this team just the way it is and I am willing to take my chances with 6 role players and 2 superstars. IF the Rockets decide to move Bonzi today because they will get nothing in return for him next year, then I understand that. But in that case they need to look for a PF, not a pg. Howard is old and Hayes is not the future at that position. The Rockets, if they trade Bonzi, should fill the need at PF that they will surely need next year.
     
  16. Pwnocchio

    Pwnocchio Member

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    Great post, I totally agree. People have been down on Rafer's numbers, but I feel like his greatest asset is that he WILL put the ball in the right people's hands, he keeps his turnovers low, and is an above average three point shooter. He can't do all the other stuff some people want, but he does the stuff that is most important to this team well enough for us to have the 5th best record in the leage! I can't see any reason to complain about that.

    And the other thing to remember is that when Yao gets back, I believe his shooting percentage will go up, as he will be taking less shots. I totally agree with you that as much as I fear for turnovers when Head as the ball, I don't want someone taking him or Bonzi off the floor. We already have a problem getting Snyder in there as it is. I feel like with Head, is deadly clutch and 3 point shooting is worth the risk.
     
  17. Rox225

    Rox225 Member

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    The role you described for Rafer is fairly accuarte. And I'll agree that he does those jobs pretty well. I just question his decision making in the waning minutes of a close playoff game. He hasn't shown the ability to make smart play's in tight situations, and he'll find himself in that situation more and more come playoff time. I guarantee you that teams will take the ball out of T-Mac's hands and I hope Rafer or Head know what to do in that situation.

    I understand the log jam argument but I'm all for trading Bonzi if he nets you a quality/veteran pg. If not then a decent backup could be had for a much cheaper price and not cost to our rotation. Yeah, Luther is pretty clutch but he can't handle the ball or run the offense with any kind of efficiency. I also don't think you have to cut into Head's minutes. I'd cut into Rafer's minutes and have him playing at most 30 MPG with the ideal being around 25MPG. And why even mention Snyder, he doesn't crack the rotation anyways? Bottomline is that the offense is stagnant with no T-Mac on the floor and there will be 4-5 minute stretches come playoff time when Yao/T-Mac are resting at the same time. A 4-5 minute stretch of no offense in the playoff's will cost you games and the series.

    I think this team can do damage in the playoff's, but to do so those 6 role players will have to deliver. Yao/T-Mac will be forced to pass and those guys will have to be consistent with the 3 and attacking the basket. It is the latter that concerns me b/c they don't do it at all, minus Snyder who doesn't play. Teams are going to sit on the 3 pt line and force them to make plays.

    I wouldn't trade for a PF anyways. You have a deep draft this year and use your pick on a future PF. Bonzi will most likely be gone next year so you have Snyder/Head as your backup guards with McGrady playing some SF to give Battier rest. You could definetely pickup a forward who can play both positions (SF/PF) in the draft.
     
  18. arbpro

    arbpro Member

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    I guess we will just have to disagree.

    I mention Snyder because he has proven his mettle and can contribute to this team. IF you bring in another player (pg) then he is further removed from getting on the court. I would much rather try to find some minutes for Snyder than bring in a scrub pg from another team.

    Exactly who do you think you are going to get as a backup pg? Kidd? Of all the names that have been tossed around that the Rockets have any chance of acquiring, none interest me. James? What upside potential he brings is more than offset by the need to take in Griffin and the possibility that the team cohesion could be seriously damaged. Guys like Earl Watson add nothing. I would much rather have Luther on the court knowing that he is going to be pressured with the ball and take my chances that he/TMac can deal with it. I really think that Luther can be a star in this league, he has the mindset of a winner. I say develop him and forget about guys who can't even crack the starting lineup of loser teams like the Grizzlies.

    And we disagree on PF too. I think the Rockets will go deep in the playoffs. In fact I think their chances of winning it all are as good as the Mavs. So if you think you are going to get a PF at the end of the first round that can contribute next year - I think you are dreaming. If you are going to trade Bonzi - get a PF in a return (even if it means giving up a first round pick too), that is a need. PG is not a need. With that being said, IF the Rockets trade for another pg I will immediately become that guys biggest fan. Why? Because he will wear a Rockets uniform. I just wish all the guys who badmouth Rafer, JHo, and at times even Battier, understood that those guys wear Rockets' uniforms too.
     
  19. Rox225

    Rox225 Member

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    I would love for Snyder to get some playing time but JVG is set on his 8 man rotation, and refuses to play matchup's at all. I just don't want to see Rafer logging over 30 MPG in the playoff's b/c chances are he'll become counter-productive. I don't see how you can trust either Rafer or Luther. Luther is a second year guard with no handles, and last night was another example of his inability to handle pressure. Rafer is a veteran PG who makes second year guard mistakes in the clutch, and who was horrible in his only playoff experience with Miami a few years ago.

    If you can make a move for James without bringing in Griffin's contract then I think you do it. If Dawson is talking a James trade then he's obviously concerned with our PG situation, and so is Van Gundy. I'd rather have James on the court than Rafer in a tight game seeing that teams will force someone else to shoot in those situations. Did you not hear the McGrady's frustration after the Dallas game b/c no one else would attack the basket. Instead they settled for bad jumpshot's or off balance runner's. You could also see his frustration last night as he was forced to come back into the game b/c neither Rafer or Luther could get anything going without him creating. That will be a big problem in the playoff's. A guy like Earl Watson add defense and a mid-range game neither of them have. He also adds the ability to drive to the basket and draw contact, again a quality neither of them have. So it's wrong to say other player's won't add anything. In fact, a guy like Watson or even James would add another dimension to this team that doesn't exist outside of McGrady/Snyder, and that's driving to the basket. And I'd never put a guy like Atkins or even Jason Hart in the category of scrub. These guys have all contributed on playoff teams. The only scrubs out there at the PG position sit on our bench.

    I'm all for developing Luther. I disagree that he'll be a STAR as you put it, but he will be a very good role player for years to come. He's to one-dimensional/undersized/and indecisive with the ball in his hands right now to be considered star potential. I know T-Mac can handle the pressure, but Head has yet to show he can, so do you really risk that going into the playoff's? I'm not sure I do. He may develop handles in a few years, but until then I don't trust him in tight playoff games.

    Not dreaming at all actually. It is more realistic then you suggesting we trade Bonzi for some young/affordable PF that would contribute next year. If that's what you're saying then who do you suggest the Rocket's look for? Is Bonzi going to net you a Chris Wilcox? Could the Rocket's sign someone like that during the offseason if they didn't trade for a PG? If you think that they can't find an atheletic PF in this years draft that can contribute off the bench like Chuck Hayes does this year then you're dreaming. Juwan can be productive for at least the remainder of his contract so you have time to develop that pick. Rafer isn't a spry young man any more and his play will only deteriorate in the next few years.

    I will also root for Rafer and Head to prove me wrong, and I hope they do. I would gladly say I was wrong about them if they can help this team go all the way. But at the same time I have to remain objective to the team and be able to criticize a player when they play poorly. That's my biggest problem with Rafer supporters. They can never say that Rafer played poorly in a game, and that is starting to be the case for Head. It's a two way street out there.
     
  20. chiorsung

    chiorsung Member

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    For Luther, he will never be a PG, just forget about it. Watching him playing @ 1 position drives me nuts. He will be a really good shooter coming from the bench. Shoot the open 3 points. Drive to the hole occasionally. That is it.
     

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