ClutchFans Game Thread: Celtics @ Rockets 3/18/2005

Cut the crap!!

 

Yao definitely needs to be more involved in the offense AND defense, and many of the things still holding him back are his doing (stamina, speed, frustration/lack of self-confidence at times, inability to get position to score, inability to be effective rebounder on consistent basis), and some are others' doing (the guards jacking up too many shots, them actually making those shots and not needing his involvement, or their ineptness in making a good pass to Yao when he establishes position)

But let me discuss some of the rediculous here: I have read a few posts here that seem to compare Yao (a 3rd year center who is nowhere near maximizing his talents) to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Hakeem Olajuwon. That is BULLS**T! Now I understand many of you guys are newbies to the game of asketball (either because you are too young to remember or because you started following b-ball only after Yao came to the NBA) and haven't been really following the game long enough to remember Jabbar and Olajuwon during their primes, but Yao can't hold a candle to them at this point of his career (and I am not expecting him to). So lets avoid these comparos because they do disservice to Yao and completely dismiss any valid argument you might make.

So when someone says that Magic used to make 10 straight passes to Jabbar at the beginning of the game, just remember who those passes were going to: freakin' Kareem Abdul-Jabbar!

That is all folks, you can proceed to make your arguments, but please avoid the rediculous comparisons of Yao to other great centers. He is barely even a top 15-20 player in the league today, let alone in the top 10 players of all time

It is a very valid argument that Yao needs more touches, but as I said before, MANY different factors go as to why he doesn't get those touches, and a huge list of why that is the case could be made. Some choose to blame Yao himself for why he isn't more involved in offense, others blame other players/coaches for not putting emphasis on Yao's touches. Bottom line? It is a combination of both.

There is only one superstar on this team AS OF NOW: that is T-Mac (who has stretches of good shooting games, and sometimes bad one; but more often than not he is simply spectacular), then there is a solid all-star player in Yao (whom I think if he spends time in Houston to work on his game this summer, will have his game completely take off next year to superstardom. MARK MY WORDS ON THIS!); then there are a solid cast of role players/veterans who are REALLY the real reason why the Rockets are playing better now than earlier in the season.

 

Let me get this out of the way once and for all

1) I have not called anyone anything(except for fa99999999)...especially...I have not whipped out the dreaded YOF term at all.....not once...

2) I agree that Yao should have gotten a few more touches(maybe another 5-10)....my point is...that he was not being snubbbed all night like some of you were saying..that is why I went thru and pointed out that he got a pretty decent amount of touches....I just think that maybe they should have done a Hakeem and kept feeding him until the Celts forced them to stop by doubling and fronting EVERY TIME.

fa9999999999999999....

That statement was based on what I see out of you EVERY DAMN GAME..
You seem to love nothng more than to blow stuff out of proportion and make statements that can not be construed any other way than to make one think you dont know jack crap about how professional ball is played in the real world.
You make post after post of hyperbole and Im sick of it. So I called you on it.

Yes...I made a mistake in the number of fouls I attributed to Yao....so freaking what.
the other numbers are as accurate as I can make them at 3am in the morning.

If you think Im a liar....back it up with some verifiable facts...note the operative word...VERIFIABLE.

till then.....I got nothing further to say to you




btw......here's some verifiable proof

Video of every touch and almost touch Yao got all ngiht

 

That's such an assinine statement. As a ROCKETS fan, I think we should be making sure that Yao gets more shot attempts.

We haven't been playing true inside-outside ball. As it stands we've been successful as more of jump-shooting team. This is an unbalanced approach and last night's game exposed that.

 

What the difference between YOF and Yao fan?
For me, I watch Rockets just cuz yao so I said I'm a YOF.
But I'm a resonable YOF not just what yao haters or other haters said "bad" YOF. got it?

Just because yao so I become a Rox fan too, just because SF I'd like to see them win. Do not hate each other and for that label I just don't care cuz the fans who throug the lable all arround I do not think they are even good people.

 

What part of R2K's posts in this thread went over your head? Yao was the beneficiary of ample passes in his direction. Perhaps, like R2K mentioned above, another 5-10 woud've been appreciated, but you can't tell me last night's loss was entirely attributable to our inside-outside game not working. When the team shoots as poorly as it did from outside it makes it that much more dificult for this system to work. I'm gonna agree with Bill Worrell who mentioned last night that in an 82 game season, you're bound to have your stinkers. In the meantime, congratulations on being a ROCKETS fan and good luck on your quest for achieving competence.

 

Hi 2k that link is not work please take a look.
thanks

 

I can not recall the all defination of YOF. It says that you only care Yao's numbers (points and rebounds, etc) , not the team. If Rockets lost, and Yao had a good number, you are still happy, and so on. When this may be somehow true three years ago when Yao first joined Rockets, but not anymore right now. The problem is that some people like label people whenever you say that Yao need get the ball or something. There is not a resonable YOF when someone got the label.

 

Thanks for the great Yao touch video.

It's obvious from the video you made, Yao did get pretty good number of touches, the problem is that Boston's defense on Yao was pretty tough, and Yao catches the pass not in a good position sometimes. Yao is definitely not a Shaq or Hakeem, who can just catch the ball and score regardless how many defender grab him.

Rockets need to work on getting Yao the ball in good position more as I'm sure Van Gundy would do in practice after tonight's loss.

 

Then either Shaq or Hakeem is GOD!!!! Either of them can defeat any team with one guard only.

 

fa9999:

Maybe next time you should leave R2K alone in his little fantasy world of "cold hard facts" that he weaved for himself to dismiss opposing opinions. Don't point out mistakes in his "cold hard facts" or what you will get is the cowardly pretense that mistakes are no big deal in his "cold hard facts". "Yes...I made a mistake in the number of fouls I attributed to Yao....so freaking what." Yeah it's no big deal when someone pretends his interpretation as history with "cold hard facts" when he can't even count the number of fouls. What is funny is such idiots accuse others don't know crap about basketball.

When you point out his mistakes and R2K retaliate with insults like "trolls", "full of hyberboles", "don't know jack crap about professional basketball" , that really shows what kind of narrowminded person he really is.

 

Don't be an ass.

Using one minor mistake to extrapolate greater, more serious errors simply because they would support your opinion is disingenuous.

This is the second time R2K has gone play-by-play to disprove this assertion, and the second time people have ignored it. What the hell? Are people just that dense?

 

No you are dead wrong. R2K has been acting in a way that's disingenuous, not me. It's disingenuous when his mistakes are pointed out he resorts to being an ass in attacking other's position and downplay the mistakes rather than just admit his mistakes. And miscounting the number of fouls is not minor mistake, it shows one's inability to grasp official interpretation of the game when he tries to establish his inofficial personal interpretation. If his credibility on such matters doesn't take a hit in your eyes because of it, then I'll have no further things to say.

 

hangxy, you're over analyzing and overeacting.

All I am saying is Yao still hasn't master the way to play tough in between guys trying to hit him and wrestle him inside. I know a lot of guys foul Yao inside and no call, but if you're a big guy the refs expect you to play big and physically punish the defenders. Yao has not learned or not willing to deal out punishment to his defenders yet. With Shaq, he would just hold on to the ball and use his big butt to brush off defenders and then dunk, I know it's ugly but it worked.

 

Its ok Pued....I expected nothing less from Panda of all people...
If there were one person on this board who fits the description of one who ignores all things that dont fit into his fantasy world...it is him/her/it.

I find it funny that he speaks of fantasy world...when my fantsay world is there on tape for all to see....I put myself out there...and backed it up...Panda doesnt...

anyone that would believe him/her/it over my physical proof isnt worth my time anyway.

btw...you kill my IL by quoting it...

 

Actually, you're incorrect.

Taking a minor error and assuming that because of it, all of the numbers are incorrect, simply because it supports you're point of view is wrong, and you know it. The last time R2K did this, you ignored it.

Then he does it again, and you latch on to a minor error in an attempt to discredit the whole thing - again.

I can't possibly believe someone would be dense enough to post this seriously. You sir, have lost your mind.

 

especially when one take sinto account the fact that the only reason why the foul wasnt counted is becasue I was tired (it was f'in 3am at the time) and I didnt quite catch it as I was fast forwarding thru the tape...I didnt make my mark at that time.

To attack the entire breakdown cause of a minor error is just the kind of tactic I woul dexpect from Panda..fine...you doubt me because of it....make me look like the faker you obviously think I am by going thru and proving me wrong....go ahead....

I DARE YOU.

prove me wrong....betcha wont...

 

Being less credible doesn't mean everything one says is wrong, but it shows an inability to grasp certain facts or an inability to be objective. You know it and you try to twist it like I'm accusing everything that R2K said is wrong. You are trying to latch on to something radical you created to accuse me of.

Last time R2k did his report I was making a critic point in his approach and we had a discussion because we had a different interpretation as to the point of his post.

Why have I lost my mind if I thinking being unable to attribute fouls correctly - which are official - is a serious mistake? You are not being rational.

 

Actually to be fair R2k, he didnt question your argument based solely on the fact that you miscounted the foul and misattributed them to be shooting fouls... he questioned the manner in which you accounted for touches and stated he himself had reviewed the 1st and 2nd quarter and presumeably came up with different number.

Now I'm not sure who is correct here since i myself have not reviewed the tape (not that my interpretation would be definitive either), but it is fair to say that neither of you can claim your interpertation of the events to be facts since both are unproven atm and note the resulting interpretation is different. You also refered to your argument as based solely on verifiable evidence, and as such is a cold hard FACT, but unfortunatlely your link did not work... so atm it is in fact not verified. Furthermore, your review of the game is not "FACT" for you yourself have stated that you were tired and conducted the research at 3am and ppl are subject to mistakes. Also the research is highly subjective as you were required to use subjective interpretation as to "scoring situation etct etc." and because your methodology is not entirely clear.. ie does yao's inability to beat the defense, thus not recieiving the ball also count as a touch? etc etc.

Note; this respnse is not to say You are wrong or he/she whoever is right, but merely to point out that everybody has interpretation of the matter and whether its derived from reviewing tapes a few times or once... they are still just you own view of the matter and not FACTS that is the be all and end all of arguments.

Just wanted to say I think most everyone agrees Yao could have definetly touched the balll more in the post but the fact that he didnt does not mean his teammate coach etc were snubbing him. Those who thinks its entirely the fault of Yao being a wuss or his teamtates being selfish etc should be ignored IMHO.

 

Toro:

I've been a Rockets fan since the 1980's. Were you one then? Did you watch the Rockets when they made their run in 1986? Did you watch Ralph Sampson make the last second inbound shot to sink the Lakers in game 7 of the Western Conference finals? You have no business patronizing me about being a Rockets fan.

And all the business about Yao getting 23 touches is a red herring. If he passes the rock away then freakin pass the ball back to him - same idea applied for a big man to pass out and back in to repost in the paint.

We know Yao's eFG. That's why he should be taking more shots. Why do you take a lower percentage shot over a higher percentage shot? The law of averages is working against you. It's like choosing to loose money when you can be making it.