ClutchFans Game Thread: Celtics @ Rockets 3/18/2005

R2k I think many fans here do not have chance to watch the game so after your highlights and game torrent on, We can do some meanfull discussion. We all want to Rockets win and we all try to give some surgestions So LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD.

Thanks 2k as normal.

 

Bill Worrell put a kybosh on T-Mac.

He keeps saying T-Mac imposes his will to win on the game. It seems like he always finds a way to mention it.

That and 'TMAC to the RACK!!!'

 

Yao needs to shoot more, pure and simple. It's either on the system or Yao. Either one needs to change.

I don't think Yao is purely passive, most of the time he plays with aggression but overall he let things fall in place for himself rather than going out and change it. He follows other's arrangement like a nice little boy with blind obedience. He equals being a team player as yielding to the team. He let others set the goal and role for him rather than molding himself as well as the team. He operates fervantly in his little confinement, trying not to step on the coach and teammates toes as well as getting good results. He can do many more things if he just steps out of that confinement, that role and sh*t that's imposed on him and tell the coach and the teammates :" look this is the way I think it should be done." Instead he sits back and follow the goal and role others defined for him. The best way I can put it is that Yao is tactically aggressive but strategically passive. That makes him a good soldier, not a good leader. A great player steps on the court like he owns the team, Yao is the other way around. If such mentality doesn't change, then the overall strategy - the system - has to. If nothing changes, IMO Yao will never become a great player, maybe a very good one, but not a great player that can carry a team night in and night out.

 

Well if some restaurant co-owner says it then it must be true.

 

R2K so when you're saying Yao got passed the ball 23 times out of 65 possessions, you're referring directly to when Yao was posting up or in scoring position right? Because Yao often gets the ball near the 3 point arc, where he will promptly pass away so that he can run around to post up. If you included those "passes" in your count, that'd be very misleading to say the least.

Nevertheless, good work on all your games! It's obvious you spend a lot of time posting videos for this forum and I thank you for that!

 

Very good observation. R2K - I'd like to know as well. That would be really misleading if Yao wasn't in scoring position all 23 times.

 

I am afraid that neither will change. Yao was passive even when he was playing for the Shanghai sharks. There were lots of games when he just let role players to determine the games in crunch situation. It was NOT until that the coach of Shanghai Sharks made it a rule that all plays went through Yao (with no questions asked) did the team take off.

His former coach made numerous comments on different occasions that the Rockets don't run the play through Yao (even JVG tried to do so last year). Yao realizes this, but does not have the guts to make demands. As such, he will never garner full respect from his teammates and the league.

People keep saying that he is nice, gentle, and humble, and that can also be a nice way to say that he is a wussy.

I hope that he can be man enough to do something but probably that will never happen. I don't think that his teammates should be blamed because this is American basketball. If you don't adjust, you will just waste your talent and forever be labeled as underachieving (based on your potential). It's as simple as that.

He played with Yao's father on the same team from Shanghai back in the 70s for years and has known the Yao family and Yao for 20+ years. Their opinion, as such, should not be devalued.

 

You misunderstood me. I am not saying that he is not aggressive on the court. I am saying that he is not (and will never be) man emough to demand the ball on a daily basis from his teammates just like all NBA stars. Just because you ask for the ball against Shaq or Amare in some games is not gonna cut it.

 

Thanks again, R2K, for such great effort.

There is no obvious defination for "scoring position".
a better way to ask may be if Yao was not doubled and within
a certain distance to the basket?

 

Dudes....I said that the touches were when they passed to him in scoring position(ie...anywhere from the foul line to the baseline)....I am smart enough to not include obvious setup passes for others in the count.

Some plays are run with the express intent of getting the ball to Yao and some arent....I have been around this game long enough to be able to tell the difference.

If I get the time today....I will clip out what I mean by scoring position and post it....but Im still tryin to get the highlights done right now...the game torrent came first and I will post it within the next hour or so

fa99999999,

that is the only argument you can muster? that I miscounted a foul?
oh...I see....you also dont believe the touches....BIG surprise there

You dont have to like the numbers....but they are there for anyone to see. Be honest with yourself and us when you count them...it is rather obvious when Yao is in the post(either side)...or going across the paint(where he is also used to getting the ball)..and the teammates are trying to get him the ball.....quit being a trolll and try speaking the truth for once.

happyrick....

dude...dont kiss my ass cause of what I do....you have a argument to counter what I say?

Say it...

as long as it is valid argument supported by facts, I aint gonna get mad at you....I aint gonna take my ball and go home..Im a big boy...if Im wrong...and you got facts to back up my wrongness....post em..Id like to see em....

 

This is getting ridiculous. I pointed out the fact that the shooting fouls in your detailed analysis were miscalculated, and questioned some numbers that you put up, and now all of a sudden I am not speaking the truth for once?

Like you, I have watched all the Rockets games (except one) this season (and last season) on league pass and can freely comment on what I see from the games. I won't make any comment on Yao this season any more unless the Rockets lose in the playoffs due to not getting Yao heavily involved in the game. At that time, I will question and criticize Yao's characters again.

Peace.

 

Face it, Boston was just too quick for The Rox. We had to shoot off balance 3 pointers because the defenders were in position to defend the shot sooner than most teams.

 

You win some and lose some (but less)

Better now than the playoffs. No biggie.

GO ROCKETS!

 

I didn't do a count on his touches, but from just watching the game, I thought he should have gotten the ball more. He was the only effective weapon the rockets had offensively. even Worrell and Van Chancellor thought he should have gotten it more. Sorry to piss you off... I'm passionate about the rockets winning and I try to call it like I see it and I don't care if I make an unpopular argument in the process. If Yao was having one of those days where he turns it over non-stop and can't hold onto the ball, but the boys were hitting 50% from 3, or T-Mac was having one of those days where he's in the zone, I would've called them out if they kept going to Yao inside.

 

All things being equal, there's no reason we don't pull out a victory against the Celtics. Take away Mark Blount's season high point total in 22 (when his career average is just below 7) and take away their 53% three point shooting when they shoot 35% on the season. Couple that with the Rockets shooting 29% from three pont land last night (on the season they average 37%, and probably better than that over the past few months) along with abnormal number of free throws missed, and you get a better idea of why we lost.

The idiotic YOFs are quick to look at Yao's 5-7 and blame his teammates for not passing the ball to him when that's just not true. This game was just a mathematical anomaly riddled with statistical outliers, nothing more and nothing less. I guarantee in a best of seven series, we pwn the Celtics since there's just no way the team shoots this poorly without eventually finding the rim and making adjustments in other areas.

I leave you with the satisfaction of knowing we are a better team than what you saw last night. Peace out.

 

So anyone who thinks Yao should have gotten more touches and shot is a YOF?

If even the radio announcers and coach feel the same way - why can't "real" Rockets fans just accept the fact that there may be games when Yao should've gotten the ball more?

It's well-known that almost everyone in the organization wants Yao to be more selfish. Does the Rockets organization place Yao above the team's success?

The Rockets lost a game they should've won and Yao should've been more involved. If he demanded the ball more and put up more shots-the outcome of the game may have been different. What's so controversial about that?

For you anti-YOFs - do you think JVG is happy with Yao's 7 shot attempts?

 

Immediately after Yao's monster 27/22/5 game against the Suns, the team reverted to a perimeter game against the Kings. This style works only so long as the shooters stay hot, so I was concerned. Well, the inevitable has happened, and I hope the team (and especially Sura and T-Mac) will learn from it.

 

There's no way in hell JVG is happy about Yao's shot attempts in this game. Guys will feel the fire up their butts when they break down the game film.

 

In this game, after several misses from guards, they tried to feed the ball to Yao, but they have done this for a while, they can not pass the ball to Yao sometimes. By the way, we should keep the sixth rather than the fifth position, why was JVG so mad for this loss. The Dallas team is more difficult to match for Rox.

 

Are you smart enough? Do not label you as a YOF if you are only a Yao fan. Very often the Yao haters label other people as the YOF, just follow the board long enough to say something.