ClutchFans Game Thread: Celtics @ Rockets 3/18/2005

Hey, nothging wrong with your argument but in this game the team DID feed yao the ball many times. And Yao did good with these passess. The problem is the following foul trouble made by the stupid juvenile refs which put Yao on the bench.
And I don't understand JVG's strategy why he did not use Yao in the forth quarter.

 

I didn't watch the game and was wondering with similar question looking at the stats. Maybe it's because Rockets were already down by 16 and JVG wanted to save Yao's energy for Sunday? But if that is the case then why Tmac still played for 45 minutes?Maybe JVG thinks Tmacs need less time to recover?

If it was because of Yao's fouls, didn't JVG said he would not sit Yao because of foul troubles any more? Can someone watched the game tell me whether Yao looked tire in 2nd half? Maybe his flu is still bothering him?

I need to watch the game to find out! R2K, thank you very very much in advance!!!

 

I have watched lots of Cleveland games and noticed that how often Lebron set up big Z for shots even after he went 0-5 or 1-8 in the first two quarters.

Maybe big Z is nasty in the locker room?

It wasn't until recently that I realized that Yao will never be much better than what he does now simply because he will never get the ball. Those comments like "he is not ready yet", "he has to demand it".......are just bull**** excuses for ballhogging and stat padding.

I blame him for being such a p***y. I would have demanded a trade if I were him and would rather put up 25-10 in the worst team in the league than being used as the 4th or 5th option on a team who is fed with leftovers.

Putting up 25-10 in the worst team for 3 years will get you all respect in the league and pave the road for you to realize your potential.

 

Are u sure you really want to see it? It is game completely pissing me off especially at a moment I was expecting the 7th winning night.

 

The thing is, if Yao wasn't pushed or fouled off the ball tonight, and didn't get a couple of extra turns at the line, he might very well be taking the brunt of the criticism - i.e. playing like a "stick puppet" or other such nonsense. The fact that he gets the ball less than some Rockets roleplayers in games such as these never factors in, despite the fact that said roleplayers are shooting horribly from the floor. And then people chime in with the "Yao is a team player and don't just look at stats" yet stats is the FIRST thing they harp on when Yao doesn't score as much - most likely due once again to lack of shot attempts.

 

Somehow, I get this funny feeling that we are slotting for the sixth seed. Didn't seem to be too much urgency tonight from the players or the coaching staff. I think JVG actually wanted this to happen so he can have an excuse to whip up his team. Don't be surprised if they play lackadasical against Minnnesota and then come out like gangbusters against Miami. I'm not saying we are throwing games, but for crying out loud, Van Gundy just let them go. He didn't put James in until what........the 4th quarter. It was obvious that we needed James in there to compete with their quickness. No urgency or leadership from TMac. I really think Van Gundy is thinking about trying to push back the peaking of this team until playoff time.

 

ToothYanker, ask the question yourself: maybe Yao is indeed just a role player in the eyes of league players?

Name me another star player in the history of NBA basketball that is treated as badly as Yao is on the court by his teammates. I have watched the game for over 20 years and cannot think of a single star player that is as disrespected by his teammates as Yao has been. Not even close.

 

Then it is a dangerous game he is playing. On the other hand, JVG knows a lot more than I do.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Yao's teammates intentionally disrespect him. I don't think that's the case. The Rockets would be better off if Yao were more vocal off the court in demanding the ball but the dude still lives with mommy and has an allowance so I don't think he'll be growing up any time soon. It's up to others to get him the ball more and realize that their shooting less than 25% from the floor isn't cutting the mustard. It's also up to JVG to force them to feed Yao more like he did with Steve Francis last year. It''s up to many people.

Obviously this could all be remedied if Yao were more vocal and I'm not trying to make excuses for him either. But once again, the dude lives with his mom and plays video games all day. He ain't gonna do something unless he's told to do it because in many aspects, he's basically a 14 year old trapped in a very large 24 year old's body. Hate to beat a dead horse but he isn't going to call for the rock himself. Once we've accepted that fact and have ALSO accepted the TRUTH - that is, when Yao gets more touches the entire team becomes better, the Rockets won't experience crap outs like tonights game against Boston.

 

what would you rather have? 16 more points by Yao or having teh celtics 2 fouls closer to the penalty each quarter? I would go with he first one. especially considering we had trouble scoring. i feel like the celtics were getting bailed out. thats probably why they fouled yao...cuz they know it would have been over if they didn't. a few fouls spread between several different quarters doesn't put them in the penalty.

 

One bad game. We have to establish inside game early when playing teams like C's, Wiz, Phoenix. Out outside and tranistion game cannot beat them always. We dug a hole early and lost poise afterwards. The next game is a test to show wheter we are a good team or not, coz good team bounce back from bad game ferociously. Had we made those FTs, we would have been right there tough.

Side not, certain people are very active whenenve Rox lost. They should seek some help as Sura needs to.

 

Also I think have a stinker like this is not always bad. It help us to find identity. We are still a team with many players play togeter less than a season. I hope Rox learn from it.

 

Let me throw in some stats here to bring some people back to reality (who apparently think Yao should get 20 shots a game or otherwise his teammates must not be looking for him)

Yao Ming attempts the 13th most FG per 48 minutes of any player in the league. Not that bad, but probably would be nice to crack the top ten.

When compared to Shaq O'Neal (by far the greatest center in the league in case anyone is forgetting), Yao attempted in 63 games 781 FG, which means he averages about 12.4 attempts/game; Shaq had 933 FG attempts in also 63 games this season, which means 14.8 attempts/game (he averages 22.5 pts/game).

So Shaq averages only 2.4 attempt/game more than Yao; that is the most dominant presence in our generation, not a 3rd year center who is still learning the game on his way to greatness.

In short, I more than anyone else would love for Yao to get more shots than he does now. But consider that Shaq doesn't have the problem of being shoved around and letting his defenders come from behind him to swap the ball away, and the fact that he demands the ball more than Yao does, and 2.4 shots/game does not look significantly more than Yao's attempts.

Another thing that might be lost on people is that centers donot attempt nearly the same amount of shots as guards do. If you think T-Mac is bad, look at the other great guards in the league (Kobe, Iverson, etc.) to know how things work for guards. Jordan jacked up a bunch of shots, that is just how guards play the game. Big men are naturally expected to shoot a much higher percentage than guards do, so for a dominant big man to score above 20/ppg he might need 13-15 shots a game only, while a guard would need around no less than 23-25 shots/game to average similar numbers. It is just how the game works.

Now let me put a little disclaimer here that I too thought that Yao should have gotten more attempts tonight, but he didn't, and even had he we probably still wouldn't have won the game, but he still should have gotten the ball more when shots aren't dropping from outside, no doubt about it.

So having said that, I would wish that people would use their logic and compare Yao's attempts/game to Shaq's attempts/game, since they are both the most dominant centers in the league, respectively.

14.8 for Shaq v. 12.4 for Yao, while Shaq averages those attempts/game in 34.2 min/game, while Yao averages only 31.1 min/game. Moreover, while Shaq is clearly the best player on the Heat (a 3-time champion), Yao is not (at this point) the best player on the Rockets, but hopefully will be one day. So not a huge difference here in the number of shots taken by each center. This also is not necessarily a bad thing, it speeks to the high effeciency by each player, in that they make the most out of the least. They are not volume shooters, and they both don't need to get many shots to do well and help their teams win.

I don't think it should be too hard getting for Yao those two extra shots per game, his teammates should simply look for him more AND he has to demand the ball more often and take position for it.

Just thought I would throw this out there, because I know that many people seem to have this idea that Yao is grossly overlooked for a man his size, with his abilities.

I hope this puts things into perspective a bit...

 

thank you tiger...if I hear any more screaming about how Yao doesnt get the ball enough when he clearly got it as much as the game dictated, I am going to..I dunno, turn off the browser I guess

 

I think its fair to note that shaq goes to the line 10.65 times per game.

Yao goes to the line 6.08.

I think both should go more, but this also explains the disparity in touches between the two that are not just based on fga per game.

 

Sorry to ruin your party, but in 34.1 min/game, Big Z averages 13.1 attempts/game, and he even shoots a much lower percentage from the field than Yao (meaning he needs more shots to keep his average up): that is 46.7%

 

Or Maybe because big Z is very good at offensive rebounding?
I didn't watched game, but since he is on my fantasy team, I know
he had 8, 5, 8, 10 offensive rebounds in the last 4 games.
I think he earned himself some more shots even at a bad shooting night

 

People still comparing Big Z to yao? no Comparison. yao is better in ever facet of the game.

 

Actually, I would say that the disparity in FT attempts per game has much more to do with Shaq's incredible aggressiveness than anything else. Shaq is at least three times as aggressive forcing his way inside than Yao is. I think it is fair to say that no one in the whole world gets pushed against and hammered on his back as Shaq does, defenders play him brutally, but he is too strong to let it bother him, and he still bulldozes his way inside, something Yao rarely does (but does with more frequency now at least). So while Shaq never settles for a fadaway jumper, Yao often does.

Also, with Yao's 78% FT shooting percentage, he makes 4.75 of those 6.08 FT/game. Shaq on the other hand shoots 46% from the FT line, which means he makes only 4.9 of those 10.65 attempts/game.

So 4.9 FT/game made by Shaq versus 4.75 FT/game made by Yao.

 

Wasn't Shaq out couple of games this season? And also did you factor in the FTs?