ClutchFans Game Thread: Celtics @ Rockets 12/14/2012

yeah I agree with you too a lot of people were questioning the decision about keeping Douglas over Livingston but with how productive Toney has been as a backup point guard , I'm glad with chose him , in the Wizards game Livingston did not seem as effective as he was in the preseason. Jeremy is basically still a rookie and still has time to learn how to play as a starting point guard and become an effective backcourt with Harden. I love watching this team because we are so young and with each game we get to see the chemistry they are developing whether it is win or lose.

 

Great point on being a little selfish, or having a strong will to improve. I agree that he needs to be more aggressive on the offensive end. But I don't worry abut Lin having the motivation to improve.

On the hand, at the team level, the 4th quarter was a little messy with Harden playing point guard, don't you think? I have to say Harden has great view of the court. But more often that not, many of the Rockets were standing again with one guy trying to penetrate, sometimes trapped in the middle and in a hurry to pass to the outside only to be intercepted. It was paint to watch sometimes, although they managed to score enough and put away the Celtics, much luckier last night than when they were playing against the spurs.

 

To me the 4th quarter of this team is predictable as soon as the iso mode is on. Hope the coaching staff can find a solution.

 

First fo all, I think the Rockets team won over the Celtics because they had a better defense than normal game in holding the C's to just 89 points. The Roxx itself scored only 101, which was lower than it's average this season, and they have been allowing their opponents to get an average of close to 105 points per game.

The unsung heron was actually Jeremy Lin due to his excellent defense on Rondo, who has been the engine of the Celtics' offense, even they average only about 98 per game.

Rondo has a 12.9 assists average this season and till the end of the third quarter he was held to only 8 and forced 6 turnovers by Lin with very little help from other players.

Two and half minutes after the fourth quarters started, Lin was benched after he scored his first 3 pointer, at that time TD only had 4.

Lo and behold that right after Lin was out Rondo exploded by making another 4 assists and scored 5 pts for himself, enough to get another double double.

Lo and behold tha Lin was so down on the bench as the cameras caught him. I bet he was lamenting that he had lost the opportunity to finish an otherwise would be perfect defense game on Rondo with the ultimate win. And that was the game Lin most wanted to play knowing he could help the Roxx win by guarding Rondo well, rather than scoring a few more points himself, 'cause that could be achieved by more assists from him.

Though over all the Roxx are better last night in defense, I still think the coaches had not recognized his contribution. That's why Lin was rewarded with a long bench till the end of the game.

What else can I say?

 

First of all, who should learn to read first. I was talking about Mchale's remark of he was going to sub in Lin but Douglas was playing really well. So this is between 12 to 4 min mark. And we all know that Harden and Lin usually comes in between 7-5 min mark.

1) The first bucket Douglas made they were up by 5 and took it to 7. You said that he helped Rockets get back in it? No. Rockets was always up. The end of 3rd was 75-70. I was not dimishing his play. Not all All. When I said the decision was already made, I never said the game was decided. Go back and read it. I said the decision of benching him was already made. Past 5 min mark.

2) Douglas missed a shot. Once again, I was not belittle him for missing a shot. I was pointing that he didn't shoot enough, since everybody on the board keep saying that Lin has to be more aggressive.

3) Douglas jumping on the ball was part of the play that he tried to go thru a pick and roll. I was pointing that he did not run pnr at all but only that time. Please read. I never said that is a bad thing.

4) Your opinion and Mchales are the same regarding rebounds.

5) His defense was great you said. I never said it wasn't. If you watch the quarter again, Terry didn't attack the basket at all, since that is not his game. He spaced out and waited for the ball and Douglas was always in front of him once he caught the ball. Where did I say Douglas got burned or didn't play good defense?

6) Bringing up the ball fast and hand it to the other guy was one thing he did well indeed. And I never said that it was bad thing. So what is your point?

7) Don't you want to win? you ask. Did I say I don't? if you read my whole post, I was analysing what Mchale meant by He was playing well and decided not to sub. My post had nothing about if I want Rockets to win or lose. Just trying to figure out what Mchale was seeing between 12 - 6 min mark in the 4th quarter, and what is expected from Douglas and Lin.

So everything you said was exactly what I said, except that the part I was diminishing what Douglas did. I was merely pointing out what Douglas did great as Mchale saw and letting Lin fans know what he is expected out of him. I wasn't even complaining because we won the game So stop that. As you and me pointed out again,
1) bring the ball up fast and hand it to the other guy.
2) stay in front of your man on defense and waive your arms up and down.
3) don't run pnr or try to create too much, but hit some open shot if the ball gets to you.

 

Look the quote I was pointing out used to analysis to diminish Douglas role. If your original analysis wasn't trying to do that then great.

The only thing about the PnR is that I think it should be run more depending on who's in the game. When Douglas is in the game I don't think it should be run that much, with Lin or Harden handling the ball I think it should be used a lot.

 

Coming from Knicks, a team now is praised for it's defense also under Woodson, Lin has been contributing in Roxx defense even though he might not have talked much about it.

The responsibilities for actually improving the team's defense should be on the coaches.

The win tonight was owed more to holding the Celtics to 89 points by better defense than offense, as the points scored was lower than the team's average of 104.2 before this game.

The key to the win was the 89 pts allowed, the third lowest this season.

A big part of it was due to successfully turning down the offensive engine of the Celtics--Rondo.

And the hero unsung was non other than Jeremy Lin.

What's hard to explain was why he was benched after shutting down Rondo for three quarters.

This is why I think the Rockets coaches were only playing lip service to the importance of defense but only really doing anything to make it a culture. Otherwise Lin would not have been rewarded with a long bench till the end of the most crucial fourth quarter.

 

Thank you, Blaiyan.

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You know what, I don't think people are complaining that he is not the primary guy. I'd be happy only if he got the role of "running the offense". However, even when he and TD on court, and Harden on bench, it is TD running the PG, not Lin. Looks like he is converted into SG. I'd rather he run the second team, but let him LEAD the second team, not running as spot up shooter in second team.

 

The only logic I could get out of this is: When TD on court, Harden plays better, as he don't need to think whether he need to share with Lin or not, pretty much the same effect as Harden on bench , and Lin is in Spur game. Thus it really doesn't matter how TD played, it really matters is that Lin is on bench. And to Mchale, it is whether he want Harden to close game, or he want both Harden and Lin close the game. It really had nothing to do with TD.

 

We win and all I read is post about lin smh djinn kids enough of this

 

This.

The real problem is not TD or Lin. It's Harden or Lin.

Obviously coach will go with Harden and Lin will be the one to be sacrificed.

 

except that td only got hot in the 4th. there is little reason to not start lin in the 4th after he shut down rondo the entire game. if mchale says he doesnt want to push lin too much due to the knee then thats 100% acceptable. but he is mum with ambiguous statements like TD was playing well. after 3 quarters, lin played a much better game than TD up till that point so

 

yeah, if coach do not want to slow down Harden's offense, Lin really don't have a way to come out, unless he drastically improve what he is not good at --- shooting, and also drastically decrease what he is now good at --- play making, his presence would affect Harden's game.

I think the spur game might do worse in that department....

I think coaches know that they need to mesh both Harden and Lin to be more strong, but before that, they could not afford to slow down Harden, and their win now mentality don't really help, we might need to wait till next season to see any long term development....

 

I don't think it's that obvious. When Harden and Lin are both on the court, Lin's game is reduced. I wouldn't say he is reduced to a spot-up shooter like some are suggesting but he is not as effective when he doesn't have ball in hand. Harden and Lin can co-exist. They just don't complement each other but at the same time I don't think Harden and TD complement each other either.

McHale chose TD because he felt TD was a better player than Lin. It has nothing to do with Harden. IMO, McHale is wrong.

 

Completely wrong.

I'm not upset that Lin isn't the 1st option. I'm upset b/c at times, he seems to be the 5/6th option.

 

cmon man your not a coach... its not all that simple and understandable for laymans...perhaps mchale simply goes with intuition...many supersuccessful experts in many areas simply go with their intuition not by some 2-d aristotelian logic and rigid rules...its more a quantum logic thing...

 

live by the 3, die by the 3. one reason why the team looks unbeatable one game and ncaa the next...

 

But in the end it looks like the coaching decision was correct, and the Rockets got the win. They were able to close the Celtics out, instead of giving up their lead, or getting close and then falling short. This time it was different and worked in favor of the Rockets.

So thank goodness the coaches made the decisions that helped the Rockets get the win.

 

Another way to look at this is the Rockets are a young team with only Chandler and Patpat from last years team in the starting lineup. The team has been doing well considering those factors or it can even be considered overachieving. Rockets haven't been blown out often this season as well.