[ClutchFans] BimaThug: Houston Rockets Salary Cap Update

This. This. A thousand times, THIS!

For a guy with such a man-crush on Chase Budinger, DD sure has a hard time understanding the team's financial management and how--WITHOUT HURTING THE TEAM'S COMPETITIVENESS ON THE COURT--the Rockets have been able to maneuver to save significantly and then funnel those savings into buying picks and being more willing to spend the MLE year after year. I mean, how the hell does he think Les and Morey allocated resources to acquire Budinger?!

Just as durvasa said, there is a distinct difference between "not paying the tax" and "not being willing to pay the tax".

And as for the "I told ya so", people should save those for after the trade deadline of the following season, as those savings could still be used to acquire additional assets, which may even be more valuable than the assets relinquished in a salary dump.

 

Depends....for the right price shane will get shipped out, as will anybody else. But it isn't a definite thing right now

 

OH PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chase has nothing to do with it, you are just tossing stones from your glass house here.......and let's not forget all that INSURANCE money that Les collected these last 2 years...that could easily account for the picks purchase price, right?

....lol...of course I know how well they have done, all I am saying is that I am not buying the organizations BS that they are going to pay the luxury tax.

I concur with everything the organization has done and is doing, just don't buy the "marketing lingo" that Morey says regarding the tax.

You were the one that spoke in absolutes about paying the tax, not me, I was the one saying they would do everything in their power to get under it.

Why? Because that is exactly what they have done every single year that they were up against it.

Until they actually PAY the tax, one would conclude they are "not paying the tax"...

I understand the "If we are close we will go for it" mentality, that is smart, but I doubt it would be more than a 1 year deal.

I believe Les gives Morey a budget and he works within it to the best of his abilities.

The only quarrel is with people who swallow the organizations verbiage hook, line and sinker.

Look, you may be right Bima, they may pay the tax, and you have free reign to all the "Told ya so's" you want.

But when you are putting your opinion out there, and in an absolute manner, don't be surprised that others have a different opinion than you do.

DD

PS. This is a worthless argument anyway, I think we are all in agreement about what the team is trying to do, if they have a shot at a superstar, they will go for it, and pay the tax, and if not, they will jettison assets to get under it.....smart business, IMO.

 

Yep, BimaThug was the only one speaking in absolutes here.

In any case, I don't what people really are arguing about. It seems like most here agrees that the Rockets will try to use the expiring contracts (plus picks) as a part of a trade to get better, and more expensive, talent. Most here also recognize that there is a real possibility that they won't be able to get such an upgrade since the Rockets already have "good" players and players better than "good" are fairly rare and many teams would go after them. Everyone also agrees that, if they don't get such an upgrade, or that an expiring contract guy who is out of the rotation (likely Jeffries) remains on the team as of the trade deadline even after deals have been made , it would make sense for them to try to get some sort of tax relief.

All that people like BimaThug and durvasa (correct me if I am putting words in your mouth) and myself are saying is that this isn't caused by some sort of absoltue "budget cap" by the Rockets set at the tax threshhold, but simply good business sense if you can save $10-11 million by giving away something (like a lower-half lst round pick and cash) worth less than that.

 

hahaahahahahahahha............haha

 

Noooooo..........curses, foiled again.


DD

 

DaDakota, I hate to say this, but you're sounding like The Queen. Please remember, if this were any other franchise, it would simply be a given that the luxury tax would be avoided no matter how many resources it took. If Morey can work a miracle, and get under the tax, it doesn't mean Les is cheap, it simply means Morey is a terrific general manager.

Bro, go have a milkshake. You're tripping too hard on this.

 

See, THIS is the problem I have, when guys like you and leebigez start tossing around the phrase "the organization's BS" or similar terms. Sure, all teams want to sell their fans on a winner willing to do what's necessary to improve the club. But you and lee have repeatedly called Les's willingness to pay the tax "BS". I just don't get that. The team, right now, is $8-9M over the tax threshold. Sure, they COULD possibly get under it. But what if no team will trade with them? If this is all "BS", then there is no way Les would have signed Brad Miller and painted himself into a corner.

First of all, I will readily admit that perhaps I spoke too soon about how hopelessly over the tax threshold the Rockets were. My mistake. Partly on bad salary information, and part underestimating the ease with which the Rockets could dump Andersen's contract (as one poster had mentioned, it was believed that Toronto scuttled the Tyson Chandler deal, in part, because they didn't want Andersen). That does not, however, change the fact that the Rockets are standing further above the tax threshold than ever before, with the "hopes" of actually INCREASING that payroll if a star player can be acquired.

I guess Les will have to show you he can pay the tax. But this is a stupid argument, since the Rockets have never been in this position before. If they trade two first rounders (or more) just to dump Jeffries and avoid the tax, then fine, I'll be right in line with you to call Les's willingness to pay the tax "BS". But even if a lottery-protected first is used to dump Jeffries (and I'm not saying that it will), I don't understand how you can say that that's anything short of smart business. And you even readily agree (later in your post) that Les is willing to use Jeffries in a trade and, hence, pay the tax in the right situation.

I have zero interest in "Told ya so's". If the Rockets pay the tax, so be it. I certainly don't want to hear that crap from you or lee if the Rockets can't make a move to improve and instead are left with little alternative but to dump Jeffries and save a ton of money. I readily admit that it could play out that way.

(See above for acknowledgment of acting rashly. That's normally not my style.)

 

Bima, I don't even think paying two lottery protected first should constitute "get under tax even if that hurts the team". I stands to be corrected that late first rounders are very much buyable at around $3M these days. -- as long as such buy and sells can be achieved reasonably regularly, I don't mind rox paying what's essentially is $6M in draft rights to save more.

What would be the breaking point, for me at least, is that if they decide to trade away good young talents just to dump Jeffries...

 

Ha, during the Summer, even minor trades stir up a hornet's nest.

 

No, at that point, Les will have proven he is willing to pay the tax, until that point, it is all just words....

No worries my man, I think we are actually on the same page.

DD

 

It's all about the signed document, folks. Without one, believe nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTUy_mlpgy4

 

Just details, but I think Toronto didn't want to take Andersen back in the earlier proposed deal involving Chandler and Bosh because that would have reduced the size of their Traded Players Exception by $2.5 million. They would have gotten a $12 mil TPE rather than a $14.5 mil. I am guessing there may be someone they are interested in getting making between $12.1 mil and $14.6 mil. They may also just want the flexibility of being able to eat a larger contract.


Later on, they got a smaller TPE out of the Hedo trade in the amount of $2.7 mil. They used that one to eat Andersen and still have the $14.5 mil TPE. The reasoning is different there-- probably not many things they could have done with a $2.7 mil TPE that is better than just renting Andersen for a year and $1.5 mil (Rockets paid them $1 mil in cash) as a backup big.

 

It is all about actions speaking louder than words, Carl Landry's knee needs a scope, Les is going to be paying lux tax for Steve Francis, Les is willing to pay the tax every year....yadda..yadda...yadda.....

We hear the same marketing angle, year after year, and then, they scramble to get under it.

There is nothing wrong with that startegy, I agree with it, I just think it is a hallow bit of speech.

DD

 

Have we ever been this far over the luxury tax before?

 

Nope, never, and we aren't this year either, until after the trade deadline.

I think that is the discussion, some folks think we are going to be paying it, while Leeb and I believe the organization will find a way to get under it, and the marketing speech by Morey to Mr. Alexander's willingness to pay it is just that....marketing for the masses.

I can't speak for Leeb or Bima, but for me, I am saying don't believe the hype.

DD

 

Sorry, I've been late to the party.

I'll have to disagree with you, but only for one reason: the cost of "dumping" those contracts at the deadline. It isn't easy to just dump 6-7M at the deadline with nothing coming back in return -- meaning we'd have to give up picks. Think 1st rounders for that kind of money.. I don't think Morey is the type to give up assets.. he prefers to keep them. You saw that in the 2nd round this year when he was refusing to give up future 2nd rounders -- can you see the team dumping Jeffries along with one of the 1st round picks we have coming up just to not pay the tax? I would think it'd be highly unlikely.

 

Maybe, but there are a lot of teams with the ability to absorb that contract, so the situation has changed a bit this season.

In addition, yes they would have to give up something, but how much, that is 100% a guess......sometimes it takes a lot, sometimes not...David Andersen was fairly painless, maybe Jeffries would be too, you know Battier would be desired, so it depends entirely upon whom is going ..and whom is taking on the contract.

DD

 

There were yrs when the rockets couldve added full mle players and they didnt. Instead, they split it between 2 players and still didnt spend all of it. Adding a mle player every yr could blow up your payroll, but your probably getting a pretty good player going into his prime. When i look at this team right now, i wouldnt pay the tax because theyre not close.Even if they dump a player or 2, they have enough assets to get that 3rd tier star like granger or iggy. It makes alot of sense to get rid of some players. You dont need shane,chuck,and jeffries when u have chase,martin,trevor,taylor,hill,and patterson.

 

tell me again how you would acquire granger or iggy? you really think indy or the 76rs want shane, chuck, or jeffries in return?