ClutchCity.net Game Thread: Rockets vs. Sonics 10/10/2003 (PRESEASON)

He's getting a lot of looks 5-10 ft away from the basket. Those are the shots he used to make in college, so hopefully, he can do the same now. His 3 point shot still looks flat, but hey Kenny Smith shot the same way and it worked for him.

 

I have 2 questions/requests:
1.Can someone who saw the game please grade the players one by one + the coach and bench(helps to get a better graps of the game)
2.Why hasn't Scales and Cornell not played at all?!They seemed to be the best players of the first 2 games,so why not let them play today?

Another thing is that from the stat sheet EG seemed to be productive down low(9rbs)...at least more productive than lat year!Can anyone confirme?
Thx

ALA

 

You don't think there is a difference?
Cato is playing as well as he can. His offensive game can't get any better. He is not a great shot-blocking/ game changing defensive center.

EG has lots of room to improve. He can score, rebound and block shots. If he gets 35 mins, I don't doubt he can get 14 pts, 10 reb, 3 blks. (He could score more but there are just not enough shots on our team!)

The point is you can still extend EG for cheap now. Maybe $3-5 mils/ yr. Once he proves himself, he will demand Cato or MoT's type contract. That is what I am trying to stay away from.

 

Grading for 1 game is unfair but if I must:
1) B or B+ to Yao, Steve, Cat, EG. I already mentioned their play earlier.
I will give them A when we win the game.

2) C to the rest. They put in the effort but the result was not great.
JJ and Mooch couldn't shoot. Nachbar was just too slow. Cato was OK. The others had little time to show much.

3) I think JVG wanted to look at Yao playing with the starters. There were not enough minutes to play Scales and Cornell.

4) EG stayed down low for the most part. I think he grabbed at least 5 rebs in the 1st quarter alone.

 

I could've said the same thing about Kelvin Cato after his first preseason with the Rockets. If the Rockets were to extend his contract now, then it will have in to be favorable terms for Griffin, which means that it is doubtful he'll accept a long term deal at around 3 mil. I would be very unhappy with the management if they decide to sign him at 5 mil or more.

The best thing to do would be to wait for him to become an RFA, and see what is his market rate. With the current trend and GMs refusing to sign expensive contracts on unproven commodities, I believe that Griffin will be willing to settle for a cheaper long term deal if other teams doesn't show interest in him.

If he does play well this year, I have no problems with the Rockets awarding him with a good contract. However, if they were to invest a long term contract at 4-6 million on him, that would be a big risk on an unproven commodity (much like Taylor, Cato, and Mooch's contracts).

 

My observations from the game.

1.The rockets brass NEEDS to test Ming for anemia. Seriously.NO joke. If I dont eat red meat or take iron I get anemia from running. I hear Ming doesnt eat meat. Big mistake. He better start taking iron or red meat or else he will wear down again by mid season.Falsone took Ming off meat if you remember. I dont know how anybody can maintain muscle mass without eating enough protein.

2.Moochie seriously needs to be cut. Not just IR,but cut. He doesnt play ANY defense at all even on small guys,he cant shoot. He airballed a shot tonight from 4 feet away. Cant hit freethrows. I dont know what JVG is thinking. I thought JVG was smarter than that.

3.JIm Jackson plays very good defense,but cant shoot at all. Nachbars shot is coming around but still cant play any defense. We still need a very good small forward that can shoot and play D.

4.Mobley still has that bad habit of "putting head down,staring at opponents feet,and ignoring Ming". He better stop that or else he should be traded.BUt he only did it once,and overall played a good game.

5.Francis is great player. Should not be traded. Hes the only guy we got that can consistantly penetrate without loosing the ball off his feet.

6.JVG looks exhausted already.Im worried for his health.

7.Cato,seems to play more intensely at pf than at center. I think he enjoys not having to guard big centers and instead just focus on rebounds.

8.Despite what everyone here says about Griffin, I see no improvement. The sonics constantly left him open and doubled ming or francis in a zone. The reason is because the memo is out that Griffin cant dribble at all or create his own shot. But it gets worse. He literally was wide open a few times(2-4 times) and miss point blank layups. Im hoping we dont resign him. I wish we could send him,Mobley,Norris and see what we can get.

9.John Amechi isnt as bad as you think. He CAN hit the jumper and hook even with a hand in his face.Using him as a backup c,and cato as backup pf,makes Griffin even that more expendable.

 

Maybe so but this is a continuation of the past 4 years and one would think that by now, they'd at least be able to show a HEARTBEAT on the perimeter defensively. This is beginning to look like the team is having real difficulty adjusting to JVG's structured method of play.

I must express some concern about how much time they'll have to get things right without getting themselves buried by a poor start.

 

three observations

first.

Yao does eat meat...it was heavily reported last year that he loves to eat at Tony Romas(IIRC)

second..

considering your past, one could hardly take what you say about griffin seriously..everyone else so far in this thread has mentioned how much better Eddie has looked this season...yet you, in your infinite bball knowledge, have decreed that he sucks.


third..

cutting Mooch outright would still count against our cap. It makes much more sense to keep him on IR and sign Wilks. that way, if by some miracle, we manage to swing a trade before the deadline...maybe, just maybe we can include him to make salaries match or something. that would be worst case scenario...
best case scenario would be that after sitting on IR for a while and being forced to practice under VG's new discipline...maybe he finally remembers how to play the game. He used to know how to play once apon a time...maybe with enough practice and being forced to fight his way back onto the team...he might come around.

but then again...maybe monkeys will fly out of my butt..

who knows.

 

He doesnt eat meat any more smarty pants. The genius rocket Falsone cut meat out recently. And on Griffin, everybody that thinks he has improved are fooling themselves. Just like when everyone calling 610 in 2001 fooled themselves to wanting to resign Moochie to that contract,and Taylor,and Cato,and Rice. Its only 2 years later that fans say "oh hindsight 20/20". Luckily I dont have to say hindsight 20/20 like CD because I never wanted these guys resigned.

 

From what little he's shown over the past 2 years, EG has to do more than simply "look better" than he has so far - IMHO that's setting the bar far too low. There are MAJOR question marks about this guy along with the stench of "bust" and incremental progress for one season will/should not be enough to justify keeping him around. The Rockets gave up a lot to get this guy here and it's well past the time for him to start producing on the court.

 

Tired legs will get stronger and should get some stamina... This is a good sign!

Hopefully by the regular season we'll be fast and furious...

 

YAO FREAKIN MING. i don't care if we had lost this game by 30(it's preseason guys, lighten up. ) the improvement that yao has made since last year is astounding. the key is that he now has confidence when he receives the ball and he knows what to do with it.

if anything it's even more obvious that last year it wasn't steve and cat hogging the ball, it was yao still growing. the media and "yao-fans" had this image of something he couldn't possibly be as a rookie and pinned any shortcomings somewhere else. i'll tell you what, it doesn't matter now, he's arrived, he'll get the ball and he will earn that all-star spot.

eddie missed about 45 layups but he looked energetic out there and was a beast in crashing the boards. he even snatched one away from ming at one point. if you're not hitting the shots focus on something else and eddie most certainly did.

as for the loss, i wouldn't put anything into it. these guys run 2 hour practices before their games while the sonics, according to calvin, have stopped 2-a-days alltogether. either way it's pretty clear jvg is trying combinations now and i wouldn't expect to see a near-finished product until the end of the month.

 

Hard practices just make games easier.

 

Prepare yourself for a "Paint Catch" meltdown.

I really hope I'm wrong about this.

 

I was supprise the Rockets gave up "big hawk" Jauqin Hawkins. At 6'7", this guy is a solid defender, can play PG & SF. I remember last season Stevie was out for a week or so and big Hawk was his replacement. I still remember in the final minute of the Lakers matchup at Staple, he used his quickness, penetrated the Lakers' defense, feeding the ball to Yao for a game-decisive dunk. That was Yao's 9/9 FG game, 20 points and oh yeah, Charles had to kiss the donkey's a$$ for badmouthing Yao couldn't get a 19-point performance in a single season game. He was also the starting PG in the game victory against the Wizards. I like big hawk. He's now a GS Warrior.

 

A good point guard (eg, John Stockton, JKidd, ) should always think of pass_first rather than shoot_first . The past 4 season, the Rockets style offense was the me_first concept of competing for scoring between Stevie & Cat, which was contrary to what a guard ought to do.

Van Gundy will certainly correct it as he's doing it now. Let's get the team mates setup first, play unselfish, non-selfcenter basketball.

 

Hehe...who cares.
Eddie Griffin the past 2 years shot the ball under 40%. He launched 12 shots, only 3 dropped in. Ironic, isn't it?

 

From Seattle Times:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2001763610_soni11.html

Sonics
Frahm helps Sonics get past Yao-led Rockets

NORTH LITTLE ROCK, Ark. — Richie Frahm made the most of his opportunity last night.

He'll have to wait to find out if his performance will be enough to help land him a job in the NBA.

Frahm, a non-roster invitee to the Sonics' training camp, scored 13 points in 20 minutes as Seattle defeated Yao Ming and the Houston Rockets 96-86 in an exhibition at ALLTEL Arena.

"It was fun. We've been going to practice every day, working hard, trying to get the veterans better," said Frahm, who finished his college career as Gonzaga's leader in career three-pointers (280). "It was good to get out there and show them what we can do."

The Sonics led most of the game by at least 10 points in cruising to their second straight victory over the Rockets.

Forward Rashard Lewis led the Sonics with 19 points on 6-of-12 shooting. He also had eight rebounds. Vladimir Radmanovic had 14 points and Ray Allen 11.

Yao, Houston's 7-foot-5 center, made his 2003 debut after missing the Rockets' first 10 workouts and two exhibitions while fulfilling responsibilities with the Chinese national team. He collected a game-high 20 points and 10 rebounds in 30 minutes.

"Guys like to give (Yao) the ball because they know they have a good chance of getting it back. At the other end, as he becomes more comfortable, his size will affect the paint," Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy said. "I'm happy with him."

The Rockets' Steve Francis chipped in 19 points and Cuttino Mobley had 14. Both sat out Wednesday's loss to Seattle.

Even with Houston's top three players back, the Sonics had little trouble controlling last night's game.

We just wanted to build on what we started," Sonics coach Nate McMillan said. "I thought the guys in the first game against Houston were really aggressive and they picked up the game the way we wanted to; we got the ball up and down the floor.

"Tonight we came with the same type of intensity and just had a really good effort."

Frahm was inserted in the second quarter and made 2 of 4 three-point attempts as the Sonics took a 48-37 halftime lead.

"You've got to make the most of your opportunities because you never know. Next game you may get no minutes," Frahm said. "(McMillan's) got a lot of different guys he's got to get out there to give different looks. There's a lot of good players here who are already under contract.

"He told us earlier we might not get any minutes. Today was a blessing to get out there and play."

Frahm also made a good impression late in the second half, pulling down an offensive rebound and scoring with 5:26 remaining. He also made another three-pointer.

"Richie can shoot the ball. We want him to shoot it," McMillan said. "This group of free agents have all played well in training camp when they've gotten their opportunity."

Frahm found himself in a tough position late in the first half. With the ball under the basket, the 6-5 Frahm found himself up against Yao. That was no contest as Yao easily swatted Frahm's shot away. Reggie Evans (10 points, eight rebounds) got the rebound and was fouled, making both free throws for a 48-33 lead.

Frahm plans to keep shooting and hopes it leads to a role with the Sonics.

"I'm going to get my shots up, literally, but it's up to the management and what they want for this team," he said. "I think everyone who's coming in on a free-agent basis has something to offer."

Copyright © 2003 The Seattle Times Company

 

Griffin's problems are on the offensive end. The kid has zero touch around the basket. Last year it was so obvious. And, the past few games prove it again. He has not touch! You cannot teach this either. To add to this lack of touch his shot is flat and knuckling. This all adds up to a poor offensive performer and we need to accept this reality. With all this said, I believe he can be a mediocre contributor, but the idea that he will dominate is not reality. He will be a pure average complimentry offensive player and he should not be featured at any point.

He is very active this year and seems to be rebounding well and providing nice athleticism on the defensive end. So, I am okay with this, but the no touch is going to hurt us because with Yao getting doubled and Stevie also. This kid could shine offensively if he had touch, but he cannot hit point blank jumpers and leaners....this is going to hurt us in the long run....so he has to make up for defensively and in the rebounding department....this is okay if Yao/Steve and one other player can become consistent offensively. I have this gut feeling and watching Yao last night adds to this, that Yao could have a near 20/10 year..which would be huge and dominating when combined with his defensive game and other skills.

 

From Houston Chronicle:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/2151085

Rockets summary

Yao a plus
The Rockets' third loss of the preseason, a 96-86 loss to Seattle on Friday, demonstrated a few things: hey are better when Yao Ming, Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley play significant roles, and they still have a long way to go.

Yao and Mobley scored their first points of the preseason, combining to make 15 of 18 shots for 34 points with Yao getting 20 of them. Francis had 19.

But Rockets forwards Jim Jackson and Eddie Griffin combined to make just five of 20 shots. The Rockets missed layups throughout the game, gave up 13 offensive boards and trailed by double figures most of the night. They did cut a 16-point lead to five in the fourth quarter, but the Sonics pulled away when the teams cleared their benches.

"Right now, we're not tough enough as a team," Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy said. "We got beat to a lot of loose balls, beat in transition. We did some things better, and we have a lot further to go.

"Right now, we don't deserve to win, so it's good to not get a reward you don't deserve. That's the only positive in losing."

Piatkowski out
Rockets guard/forward Eric Piatkowski missed Friday's game with the high ankle sprain he suffered Thursday in Seattle and is not expected to play Sunday against the Hornets or Tuesday against the Kings.

How long he will be out, however, is much less certain. For the second time in a week, the Rockets might need good news from MRIs to get a key player back on the court for the regular season.

"Right now, it's just very swollen and sore," Rockets trainer Keith Jones said. "We won't know how long (Piatkowski will be out) until we get the MRI results."

Maurice Taylor is being treated for an injured shoulder.

-- JONATHAN FEIGEN

Preseason results/schedule
Leading
Date Opponent Result scorer
Oct. 7 Portland Trail Blazers 104, Rockets 80 Muoneke 12
Oct. 8 Seattle SuperSonics 98, Rockets 78 Scales 16
Friday Seattle SuperSonics 96, Rockets 86 Yao 20


Date Opponent Site Time TV
Sunday Hornets Toyota Center 7:30 p.m. Ch. 51
Tuesday Kings Sacramento 9 p.m. Ch. 51
Thursday Kings Toyota Center 7:30 p.m. Ch. 51
Oct. 22 Nuggets Toyota Center 7:30 p.m. Ch. 51
Oct. 24 Spurs San Antonio 7 p.m. Ch. 51, ESPN
·All games also are broadcast on KILT (610 AM).