ClutchCity.net Game Thread: Rockets @ Timberwolves 12/21/2002

Sorry. We answered at the same time.

 

I think exhaustion was a factor. But if this was the case, weren't the Rockets supposed to use Posey since he got fresh legs?

 

Rudy's not going to put Posey in until he has an understanding of the offensive and defensive schemes. He's been this way with everyone except veteran superstars like Barkley and Drexler. This is no different.

 

The first 3 quarters Yao was clearly more involved, even though he did not have many shots. But the fourth quarter Yao barely touched the ball. Rockets were down by around 10. With timing running down, Rockets seem to be in a hurry to shoot and just settled mostly for outside jumpers. All 9 outside jumpers missed.

 

T-wolves seem to be the first team that really started double/triple-teaming Yao right from start, as soon as Yao gets the ball. He didn't shoot a lot, even thought he got ball in the post a lot in the first three quarters.

The TOs will come down once Yao and his teammates play inside-out game and face double/tribble-teaming situations more.

 

Good observations.

You know, even without drilling down too deep, and just looking at the final score, you could conclude this loss wasn't necessarily a case of bad defense, but bad offense.

There was a time in the not-too-distant past when holding a team under 100 points was considered a good defensive showing, and 86 points was considered totally anemic. I guess the NBA has just deteriorated into crap.

Regardless of Yao's shot count, we couldn't score when needed. Our defense was inadequate only with respect to our offensive inefficiency.

Granted, I couldn't watch the game, and I'm probably using a dated benchmark for measuring offensive/defensive effectiveness. We're in another era now -- the dark ages of uglyball.

 

When a team plays aggressive defense and hits a decent percentage of wide-open shots they have a chance to win. With the exception of Ming, the Rockets don't consistently shoot well and no one seemed like they wanted to play defense tonight. My theory is that a "professional" player should not miss a wide open shot and should rarely miss a freethrow. I am amazed at some of the open shots that are missed in the "modern" NBA. If teams like the Rockets played intense defense every game, made their freethrows, and hit their "wide open" shots they would win most games, home or away. However, when "if's" and "but's" become fruits and nuts, everyone will have a Merry Christmas!

 

Oh please, I'm so tired of that tired argument. Surely you have something better to do with ALL our times than bring that up.

You've setup a straw-man argument that totally misrepresents my point. My point isn't that Yao needs more field-goal attempts, period, and who cares if the Rockets win. So, stop suggesting that's my implication.

My point is that Yao needed field-goal attempts (or at least touches / assists) in the 4th quarter when the Rockets jacked up 9 missed jumpers. Instead, he had zero attempts, and few touches in the low-post.

We have every right to bemoan the strategy and impatience demonstrated by the Rockets during clutch time.

If your point is that Yao should stop losing his man on defense, and stop making poor passes (and dropping good ones), then yes, I agree with you unequivocably. It's an obvious and true point. But so is my statement that the Rockets shot themselves in the foot (literally and metaphorically) with their offensive selection in the 4th quarter. The Rockets were IN THIS GAME with 8 minutes left (down 6), but never threatened thereafter.

Yes, I saw this extensively in the first quarter. Yao ended his time in the first quarter with 3 assists, I believe. He only had 2 points, but I was content with the Rockets' offensive strategy. You're right, this is exactly what's supposed to happen.

So, you tell us, is this what happened in the 4th quarter, or not? A tape of the game, and/or NBA game-log can help you in determining the answer to that question.

It's a good thing that wasn't my point.

I disagree with your statement as well. The offense is working when the offense gets good shots. This is always a game of probability, and sometimes good shots rim out. That's life; but getting quality shots, fouling out your opponent, taking advantage of mismatches, getting to the line are a good measure of offense prowess.

How many in the 4th quarter tonight? Hell, how many turn-overs did he have? (Another measure of how often he touched the ball.)

Zero. Zero.

Why do you keep insisting this is the case? The Timberwolves were lights out in the first half (mostly on jumpers), shooting above 55% for most of that period. But they ended the game at 47% from the field; not good, but again not the reason we lost the game.

I'll reiterate this for you again:

7:26 left in the game, Rockets down 6 (86-80).

Rockets score 6 pts the rest of the way.
Timberwolves managed 12 points the rest of the way.

The Timberwolves could've scored 1 point in the last 7:26 of the game and still won this game. Are you really lamenting the fact the Rockets couldn't hold the Timberwolves scoreless over the span?

I'm focusing on just this critical period, here. The offense was very good at times, and the defense was awfully porous at times during this game. But to exclude the last quarter of the game in your analysis, and blaming earlier mistakes as "killing" the Rockets ... pfffttt.

 

The Rockets are probably too tired. They didn't get into the hotel until 3 A.M. Yao and his teammate seem to be a step slow today. Minnesota play a smart game tonight. They execute down the stretch by passing the ball for good shot. The Rockets settle for jump shot (which can be hard to fall when you have tired legs). They went 2 for 19 behind the 3 points line verses 5 for 10 for the Timberwolves. Again their point guards play well and they pass the ball around well. The Timberwolves are second in the league in assists. This is why they able to win with less talent. May be Rudy should play some fresh leg tonight (like Posey or Hawkins) since their defense is definitely off from the 1st period. So I think lack of defense and fatigue play a big role in the loss today.

 

IMO, the 3 main things that precluded us from having even a chance to win this game in the end were:

1) rudy keeping EG out for the entire 4th quarter, after he had just suffocated KG on defense in the 3rd. KG proceeded to torch us in the 4th by simply shooting over MoT.

2) rudy allowing Rice, Mooch, and MAINLY CUTTINO to jack up long jumper after long jumper early in the shot clock and after little if any ball movement - throughout the game and especially in the 4th. Of course every one of those jumpers was missed.

3) rudy electing to guard Gary Trent with Rice and TMo the entire game, allowing Trent to gain season highs in points and rebounds.

 

Heech, bravo!!! Very eloquent arguments. You're sure you dont work for some sports radio channel.

 

1. yao did not play well enough or maybe wolf's defense was too good;

2. I did not see rockets showed any motivation to win in the last 4 ~5 minutes from the way they played, i even thought it was their strategy not to win this game

 

A gamelog cannot tell you if Yao was getting the ball in the post or not. Yao could have gotten the ball and was quickly double teamed. DoD is asserting that Yao then did the proper thing and kicked it out. According to you, the assists and turnovers should explain whether Yao was getting the ball but that is misleading. We know the Rockets were not hitting their jumpers in the 4th, which would not lead to any assists and players can touch the ball many times and not have turnovers (amazingly, Steve had zero tonight). I think your arguments about other points are valid but I'm starting to believe that Yao was just taking what the defense gave him.

 

First of all, the Rockets need to send all the refs in the NBA a big present this Christmas or find another way to kiss their ass because we get screwed every time they get together on a "disputable" call. That call on Yao bring out of bounds was ridiculous. First of all, they never got the shot off in time. Therefore, 24 sec violation. And if they are saying that the Wolves got the shot off, Yao came back in before grabbing the pass. Every call overturned goes against the Rockets. Yao got hammered but didn't get the calls until the fourth period. Second, why are the Rockets taking so many damed three pointers when they can get them in? i understand sometimes they can get the ball in, but it seemed like tonight they just threw it up their with a prayer. I think that the three pointers should be shot only when the shooter a) is hot b) has a good look c) is not jeopordizing the game. Like Calvin and Bill were commentating, you need a string of singles more than a homerun. Granted the Rockets have gotten themselves out of jams before with their 3's but when you are shooting 1 for 10, I say don't rely on it. Everyone complained so much about KT, but I think Mobley is just as much a ball hog. I know I'm going to take some heat for being a "hater" but this was a really frustrating game. One more thing. If the current line-up isn't working tonight, let new guys in. Let Boki in earlier and see what he can do.

 

The Wolves gave us a lot of problems.All good teams make plans according to the strengths and weaknesses of their opponents on both offense and defense. The team is very vulnerable when opponents make things difficult for them on both ends and we then have problems with mismatches. We have a very long way to go in this season. A lot of homework needs to be done during practice and the players need to have a clear idea of how to play against their opponents everynight on both ends. Mistakes will be made and they will have to face stronger teams but if we devise strategies and execute game plans properly and start to make adjustments during the game we can win a lot of games. This requires a lot of hard work and mental/physical strength. We can't take anything for granted,it's going to be a hard and long ride but we must play as a team everynight to give us a chance of winning.

 

Heech's original quote :

heech,

It appears you didn't watch the game. I hope you do get to watch the game before you make comments like you do in the future because it would help prevent me from having to "break down the film" and your argument that the Rockets don't get the ball to Yao. Now, if you indeed did watch the game and still do this, I think you're blind.

Now, for yours and the general ignorance of those saying the Rockets don't attempt to go to yao or give him touches during crunchtime, blah, blah, blah, I give you the final 7:26 of the game when Yao checked in. You'll see that Rockets' main focus was either to get Yao the ball or have the offense run through him. Prove me wrong :

----------------------------------------------------------------------

7:22 Twolves player tips inbound pass to Ming who touch-passes to mooch who misses the open jumper
6:40 Watch this play and you'll see that KG is laying off his man (Mo Taylor) a bit and floating to double-team Yao. An entry pass here would've been a turnover. No pass to Yao.
6:00 pass to yao who passes to francis for layup.
5:25 pass to yao from taylor eventually leads to a pass to yao who was fouled
5:05 pass to yao attempting to set up for a shot, but rasho is denying him position, francis sees this and shoots instead (and misses)
4:25 pass to yao attempted to be set up by Rice, but watch as KG comes over to double-team Yao with Rasho. Rice wisely avoids the entry pass.
3:54 stupid shot by Rice on a fast break (Yao was nowhere in sight as he was trailing far behind the play on the break)
3:25 pass to yao on the right block, yao fakes a shot, double-team comes over, he passes out to the top of the 3 pt arc and is fouled.
3:12 Taylor tries to go inside to yao immediately after the preceding foul. Yao is immediately fouled by Garnett trying to steal the ball.
2:47 Ball inbounded to yao, who passes it to Francis because he's too far out to take a shot.
2:37 Ball goes back into Yao at the right elbow, he instantly dumps the ball in to Francis who drives and gets the ball knocked away for a turnover.
1:43 Ming gets rebound and throws an outlet pass to Mobley who drives for the layup.
1:24 Mobley jacks a 3 pointer. Ming doesn't touch the ball. We're down 12 at this point, so I can see why we're jacking 3's (albeit ugly ones)
1:00 Hawkins jacks a 3 pointer.
0:42 Rockets stop applying defensive pressure as the game is over at this point. Scrubs come in.

 

The point I'm making above is that the offense allowed others to get open because Yao is getting double-teamed. THIS IS WHAT AN INSIDE-OUT GAME IS SUPPOSED TO DO!!! (sorry for the all-caps, please don't ban me). The stats lie... the play-by-play on the Game Updates at various websites lie. Unless you watch the game and see what's actually happening, you would've missed the fact that on damn-near EVERY possession, yao either got the ball or the others were trying to get him the ball.

As soon as Yao came in, he was the focus or at the very least very involved in the offense. He wasn't frozen out, he wasn't left out, and no Rudy didn't get dumb and not see him. The Twolves's double-teaming denied him the ball or forced him to pass on several occasions.

Unfortunately, we weren't converting when Yao passed out or the ball rotated. Don't blame the offense - blame the execution.

Now, I can't explain it to you guys any more than that. I'm telling you what's on the video tape (uh, hard drive, actually) and it doesn't lie. If you want to believe that Yao isn't being used or is being ignored during crunchtime, that's your problem... I've got my reality to live.

 

I did not see the game, but I guess Yao is tird, he has been playing for around 35 min or more for recent games. and it has been a back to back situation, in this case, Cato should have play more and let Yao only show up in critical moments.

 

Hey everybody... Sorry I'm late to the boards tonite.

Anyways, I've been reading a lot of these posts and I think a lot of people bring up very valid observations. To address these points, I thought I'd work through them, in no specific order of importance.

Dr. of Dunk, your observation that DEFENSE(or the lack thereof) was what hurt the Rox is a valid one. There is a consistency issue here with the Rox' D. The Rox have yet to present a consistent defense that they can rely upon, whether it's late in the fourth, or anytime the opposition is making a run, to put a concerted defensive stand on alternating possessions. The question that follows then is Why does our defense break down?" Here, I have a couple of theories.

Theory#1 - Objectively speaking, we have defensive liabilities in Rice and MoT. Whenever RudyT is subbing in these players for EG and or TeM, we have to deal with a tradeoff. Rice and MoT are an offensive pair, not a defensive one. What we lose in offensive productivity in EG and TeM, we gain in defensive strength. Why we didn't stick to EG in the fourth quarter is beyond me. And on this note, I totally agree with pippendagimp

Theory#2 - Poor rotations when the ball is swung to the opponent's strong side. Good penetrators break down our guards, force a late rotation, and leaves us vulnerable to easy field goals. However, in contrast to OverRRated, I DO think the zone is a better way for us to go. The zone still, barring slow rotations, still maximizes the shot-blocking abilities of EG AND YAO.

Theory#3 - Lack of concentration due to fatigue. I totally buy this argument. I don't know why the NBA scheduled so many back to back weekend games for the Rox, but quite frankly, it sux. I think it's rather unfair and biased on the part of the NBA. Moreover, going back a few days now, Yao said something after the Pacers game to the effect that, "I'm really tired." I imagine the entire team must be tired having played at home on Fri only to fly out to Minnesota for tonite's game.

...to be continued

 

Hope you won't have to anymore DoD. That was the most informative post I have ever seen.

From my rough estimate, Yao touched the ball in 8 of the 11 possessions from 7:22 to 1:43 in the fourth. So I don't think Rudy or the guards forgot about him in crunch time. Maybe Yao was tired or maybe he has to be more aggressive. A lot of people have already alluded that Yao was tired and I agree. But the guy may have to be more aggressive on the double team. Either make a quick move to the basket or occassionally force the issue and draw a foul. Yao's gonna get doubled much more often and sometimes his teammates will not have it. In this game, he probably should've. But so many people here talk about "team basketball" and Yao probably trusted his teammates to "turn it on" like they did against Atlanta. They didn't and we lost because we did not shoot well, not because Yao was being neglected.