ClutchCity.net Game Thread: Raptors @ Rockets 11/2/2002

Yeah, just rusty.

Funny thing is, KT is SO SKINNY that I confused him with Mobley!

LOL!

Ok, who fell asleep? No sleeping allowed when Yao is playing!

 

Originally posted by Jeff
So, Francis is better than Jordan or Kidd or Olajuwon or Shaq or Dr. J? Francis is on par with Magic or Larry Bird or Kareem? Really? Seriously?

Because, if you assume Francis can lead this team into the playoffs in his mid-90's, you must honestly have a higher opinion of him than most. Let's be realistic.

What the heck are you talking about? Francis can play selfish basketball because he's not a Hall of Famer and we can't make the playoffs? Olajuwon never missed the playoffs two years in a row until he became an old man and do we have to bring up who he played with? If your "franchise" player can't take your team to the playoffs then that's a pretty big problem. Every team has injuries and every team has new players each season yet it's only the Rockets who have to adjust to all of that. We're tired of the excuses and we're tired of Rudy telling us "how proud he is of his guys" and how they "battled". It's RudyT's responsibility to get Francis and Mobley to buy into a team concept that will allow Eddie Griffin, Yao Ming, and Nachbar to grow. That's not happening right now.

 

I think everyone is happy that we won.
We should be encouraged by Ming's progress 4-7 shots is pretty good and if he had made his free throws he would have gotten 10 for the night.Take the positives from the game and keep on doing the right things,and at the same time learn from the mistakes to overcome the weaknesses.

 

Looks like a struck a nerve.

 

DVauthrin,

Have you ever heard the phrase...

"The most boring conversation is one where everyone agrees"

And if that was allowed. Then, nothing would change (the Rockets).
We would just go merrily on losing...like lemmings.

 

The Carter-less playoff stretch drive Raptors from last season:

1) Shot better as a team than the 35% they did tonight.

2) Got more than the 25 mpg that they got from Antonio Davis tonight.

3) Had Keon Clark.

4) Had better post players than Jelani McCoy and Mamadou N'diaye.

The Rox were up by 10 when Carter left.

I stand by my original statement. The team we beat was not very good.

 

DavidS,

You are missing the point. I never said I expect us to agree. But, damn, we are 2-1 and most of the posts are Rudy sucks or Francis and Mobley are selfish, or Eddie Griffin sucks.

There is something really wrong with that picture, don't you think.

I have mentioned over and over I don't mind people expecting greatness from the Rockets and pointing out flaws-that is part of being a fan, but damn, another aspect of being a fan is showing support of your team when they succeed. And like in this thread, all I ask is something like Great win. Steve needs to do this, this and this in the future, is that so hard? With variations of course. I don't expect or want robots.

Balance both sides of the equation is all I am saying. I don't think any more or less of the pessimists compared to the non-pessimists, but I often feel like I am attending a funeral when it comes to reading this forum. It is so depressing so often, when there is no reason for it to be.

That is what I am trying to get at.

Btw, Vengeance, thanks for the props.

 

i am sick of everyone complaining about stevie franchise. He is our best player and will stay our best player. Everyones complaining that he doesn't get his teammates involved could shut up. What were his stats last Year? 21pts, 7rebs and 7 assists. the lakers have won 3 straight titles with two players. The laker role players are not involved in the offense. their job is to play defense and hit shots when they do get the ball. The rockets will be able to do this with a 3 person team. Stevie, the cat and yao will eventually lead the rockets to the nba finals while the others will continue to be role players. You can't have 5 superstars on your team. look at the portland trailblazers.

 

There is no doubt Franchise and Mobley want the ball and don't like to give it up as much as they probably should. There was one big example in the 2nd half when Yao's guy came out and double teamed Franchise...the crowd got all excited thinking Francis would throw it in to Yao but he didn't...they let out a big groan.

Having said that...It doesn't bother me as much when Francis hogs the ball compared to Cuttino. Cat just seems like it's a competition between he and Francis. That has to end.

 

My question - and its an honest one - how can we talk about lack of assists/team play when everyone else is shooting so horribly?

Seriously; in Indiana, when you take away Francis and Mobley, everyone else must have shot somewhere in the 30 percent range. And its only started to get better...since, you know, we are a whopping three games in.

Cato isn't about offense, Ming's struggling, Griffin is really struggling, we've had a different SF starting every game, and we haven't even had a chance to have Taylor, Thomas and Rice out there together....how can you guys complain about the TEAM ball when we have yet to get our TEAM out there to play?!?

Around the league, our backcourt is talked about very highly. But if you guys are basing your criticism on the 'passing' comments the national media will occasionally make....well, I must have missed the memo where we all suddenly realized everyone outside Houston really paid close attention. I mean, we never talk about getting adequate respect from them, right?!?

 

Yep. I remember that too. I've been coming to Clutchity.net before it was .net, before it was even .com. When it had a looooong domain name. Before the Feb '99 switchover to the new bbs. (Funny how you can do something for only six or so years but be a veteran.)

The real influx of haters came when we traded for Pippen. Then the huge "pessimist vs. cheerleaders" fights started. And very, very sadly, our really great veteran posters started fading away. For every well thought out post, there would be ten short quip responses that would somehow find the negative in everything. Posting became unrewarding. Really great posters here became lurkers. This is the best sports BBS there is- but man, the reading quality has declined so far from what it once was. The negativity in here just brings everything down. It really, really sucks when I go to my favorite site in the world to read about my favorite team- and even when they win, I have to listen to thse haters. It just brings me down.

Haters, pessimists, I don't know what your problems are. And sorry, before you make some cute reply like, "my problem is Steve not passing", no, that's not your problem. Your problem is the first thing out of your mouth is the negative. Usually, the only thing. I guess, I hope, I pray, that when you watch a Rockets game (if you watch a Rockets game) you yell and shout and want the team to win, and maybe, enjoy yourself. And then something happens, that when you get to a BBS forum, the only stuff you want to bother typing is the bad stuff. You know what? It really sucks reading your rainy day crap.

There's a joy I have in being a Rockets fan. I get excited like a kid when I get to watch a game. That was a joy I used to be able to share with other Rockets fans in here, even if the team or individual players played poorly or we lost. We would get frustrated that Glyde and Mario couldn't buy a three, and of course we would complain, but negativity and complaining were never the emphasis of conversation, even when times were hard. People didn't spend so much bandwidth trying to defend their right to b**** and hate and complain.

So, you pessimist/haters, is the way you type in here the same way you would talk to a fellow fan if you were at a game or at a bar watching the game? If so nothing would suck more than being near you. You ever watch a game or hear one on the radio? You know what happens when Francis jukes his defender out of his pants and swishes the J? The fans cheer! Just f*cking imagine that! Even if there was an open man on the play, hell, I don't know, maybe it's some primordial thing that's programmed into (most) of us, but seeing that makes you cheer! Just for the sheer joy of it! Because you're a fan! Because you're a fan of the team that scored! Beacuse you love the game!

Almost everything the hater/pessimists have written in this thread is negative, every response is negative. Would you guys seriously carry on a conversation in the same manner you're carrying on in this thread? Really? Me, personally, I talk about the Rockets (and read and post in this forum) because of a love of the game, and love of the team. Even when they play bad, even when they're headed for the lottery like they were last year, if I was going to talk to a fellow fan, I would say 'yep, they're sucking it up right now, and x and y and z isn't working', but I would talk about the things I love about the team. I talk about the things that bring me joy. Francis and Cat's raw, God-given talents, Griffin's potential, Kenny's hard work, MoTay's jumper. Vicious alley oops thrown down by Cato. A play that worked perfectly. Somehow I doubt that you guys would really actually hold a conversation with a fellow fan in which, after a blowout win where Francis obliterated the opposition, the only thing you would do is b**** about is his passing. The only thing. And adamantly defending your right to b**** about it if someone would prefer to share in the joy of this guys absolutely astounding talent and ability. We are so blessed to have this guy on our team! I mean, holy sh*t, this guy is one of the best in the league! And he's a Rocket! THANK YOU GOD! But you know what, if this really is how you would converse with your buddies in the bar after the game, just dwelling on the negative- you suck. Period. You are intelligent posters, and you have the right to say what you want, but it's a shame I'll have to put good intelligent posters on ignore just so I don't have you bringing me down every damn time I log in here.

Of course, the inevitable response to this will be "well, what do you expect us to do? Only talk about the sunshine-ass positive stuff? Just be rah-rah cheerleader homers? That's lame! It's boring!" The answer is no. But this BBS has been through this whole ******* ****ing debate ad naseum before.

It's not about only posting the positive. That would be lame and boring. But only posting the negative, which is what you hater/pessimists are doing, really, really sucks. It may be constructive criticism to you. For all of us, the love of the team involves wanting them to be better and play well. All of us. I'm sure that's why you're fans and you post here. But plain and simple, if the only thing you're going to do is post your criticism here, the negatives- well reading it sucks. It brings me down. It's exactly this stuff that chased off the quality posters we once had, and is continuing to. Thank God Jeff is still fighting the good fight- bless you, man. I wish there was an alternative to having a really long ignore list, so I thought I'd make my plea here first.

Lighten up.

 

I DO NOT hate Stevie....what are you basing your ignorant judgments from? Its called <b>CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM</b>..we ALL want Steve to be the best ball player he can be, he has so much potential but have alot more room to improve...We all deeply care about our rockets, why are we posting here in the first place?

 

I agree totally with you. I have been watching the Rockets for years havent been on here for that long. But I do know the Rockets.

This is one of the nice times to be a Rockets fan. They are undoubtably on the way up in the NBA. You dont go from getting the first pick to the finals instantly. And all the hard fought games and the steady improvement is great to watch.

Anyways stop complaining. Or you will drive me away and i have been posting here for two weeks only. Thanks...

 

really?

 

So, I'm a hater? I call it the objective fan.

So, you want positive? Heh heh...if you want "REAL" positive ask a objective
fan.

Want proof?

Francis: He should be able to shoot better this year because he doesn't have
head aches. One of the reasons for his inconsistency last year was due
to his lack of playing time.

Francis has shown flashes of brilliance. We all know he can go ISO. But he's using
the pick-and-roll better than ever! This is Steve's year to shine as a leader.
MVP anyone?

Mobley is in shape! He said himself that last year he overworked
himself during the off season and was burned out. He took it easy and
came ready to work hard for training camp. He's in the best shape of his
life (looks like mini-Kobe!). This year is turing out to be his best shooting
season.

Cato has taken Rudy's advice and ignored the criticism. This is the 2nd year
that he's come ready to play. He's used the off-season to improve his
game and they are already showing. Rebounding skills have improved
and he's blocking out. Fouls are way down and blocks are way up!
He doesn't argue with the refs when he gets a foul. Technical fouls
are down!

KT is slimmer than ever and is ready to start. Although this is up in the air,
no one can deny KT desire to compete! His game has steadily improved year
after year.

Griffin. In his 2nd year he's showing reasons why he was traded for three players.
Rebounds being a weak point of Rockets past. The Rocket got just what they
needed in Griffin. A decent 3-point shot, he's also showed that he has
a developing inside game. Good things are in Griffin's future with the Rockets.
Not bad for a "kid!"

Hawkings. Thanks to Scotty Brooks, we've been able to pick up a "garbage,"
hard-nosed player like Mario Ellie. Hawkings has shown a willingness to do
what ever it takes to help his team on both ends of the court. He's a steal!

Yao Ming: He's the real deal. Enough said!

 

welcome back TPL. Where have you been?

I love reading everything you write. But am I to understand that your first comment in awhile is to suggest a lineup in a blowout????

Hawkins was simply amazing tonight. No?? Hawkins is a freaking defensive stud of your dreams. 3 offensive charging calls....simply studly. Maybe Nach was DNP for coaches decision or whatever, but if I'm coach....Hawkins gets 39 minutes on that defense.

make no mistake...the defense blew out that Toronto team in the 3rd quarter, and Hawk was a significant reason...also our zone simply rocked!!!

Rudy has this team playing defense.

This is the most underrated aspect of the Rockets this game.

oh, and Kenny rocks!!!!

GO ROCKETS!!

 

Not literally- it wasn't like there was a bunch of hate in here when he was traded- man we were excited! But you can bet we had a lot of new posters in here when the trade went down. Then when it became clear that we weren't headed for the title, which is what everyone was hoping for, the "pessimist vs. sunshine asses" flame wars began. Most of the pessimists were little newbies who would just come here to do nothing but b**** and complain. The veterans tried to hold them off, but it was no use, it was like holding back the tide. So they stopped posting. Man, I miss those guys.

Guys, are you out there, lurking? Come back! Show your member #'s with pride and reclaim the BBS!

 

btw...that top of this page post is a very amazing post Nolen!!!

you rock!!!

I've got a ticket for you anytime you are in town...as always!!!

 

DavidS- lol! Stop it! Your sunshine-ass homer stuff is making me ill!

Uh... maybe you don't have to go that far... your mood swing is reminding me of ZRB's "conversion", lol. Let's just start out slowly, by stating some positives from tonight's game. HP did a good example above.

Good post.

 

How is it constructive? Do you think Steve is lurking on this site reading fans' opinions and saying to himself, "He's got a good point there." The only constructive criticism Steve needs comes from his coaches and fellow players, and they don't come down on him the way you guys do. I imagine that the Rockets' success is far more important to them than to the fans, yet they probably don't complain like people here do after wins. My proof of this is the obvious disparity in the amount of "constructive criticism" Steve gets opposed to the rest of the team combined including Kelvin Cato. When we talk about Ming getting the ball stripped from him, nobody says "Hey, Ming should hold the ball up higher," or "He needs to be more aware of defenders around him." They say, "****ing Francis!!! It's his fault for not getting Ming the ball in a better spot." In the loss to Indiana, people were saying Steve needs to pass more to Griffin, yet they don't mention that Griff shot less than 10% when he had 11 shots. It seems to me that the only people who criticize the Team, are the ones who are defending Francis.

You guys keep saying Steve needs to pass more. Duh! Duh! Duh! Duh! Duh! Duh! Duh! Duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't disagree, but you guys make the point after every single game. Add that to the fact that the rest of the team except for Mobley and Moochie don't get criticized plus the fact that you guys never mention that three of our veterans are missing, it has just gotten to point where it's annoying.

The Rockets need to win. I don't care how, just as long as they win. If that means Francis and Mobley need to dominate the offense until Mo-T, Rice, and Kenny are back, then so be it.