ClutchCity.net Game Thread: Raptors @ Rockets 11/2/2002

Have you guys forgotten part of the meaning of being fans?

Yes, we do have high standards, but geez you guys can't even stop criticizing one minute to celebrate a win. A win is a win. 100-80, 70-60. They both count the same in the standings.

Can the Rockets improve? Sure. Do they need to? Sure. But, quite frankly I am happy being at 2-1 early on, even with all our deficiencies. Take things a game at a time. And realize with a young team we will have growing pains along the way.

There are far more positives than negatives after this game, why don't you guys mention some of those?

Some of You seem to have lost the meaning of being a fan, and have turned into one large bbs cult. And it is sad to see. I remember a few years back when I first came here, the rockets forum was the place to be, heck, I remember breaking the mobley resigns with houston scoop.

But ever since last year all this forum has become is a sea of pessimism and nothing is EVER good enough from our team.

Look at how many of the threads in this forum are started by relatively new posters, not most of the established veterans.

Most of us, if asked would prob tell you we first came here to use that forum, but now we are hangout or fantasy forum guys, because even when we try to support our team, negativity drowns us out.

I know it has happened with me.

Am I saying I think the rockets are the greatest thing since sliced bread? No way. They have a ways to go before ever approaching that level.

But, I could careless if they go 28-54, or 54-28, they would still be my favorite team and I would not be afraid to celebrate a victory.

Tonight, we should see multiple threads praising steve, or saying hawkins did great, or yao kicked butt in front of the home crowd, instead we are focused on our problems and how we have to play a certain way if we ever want to be elite.

That is not what being a fan is all about. It is give and take, you have every right to point out flaws in the team, but at the same time you need to show happiness when the team does good, or wins.

And right now this board is way too one-sided, in my opinion.

 

Toronto played better last season without Carter. We were beating the Raptors pretty good when Carter left.

 

I agree we can have a team and grow, but the problem is one that will not go away unless something is done to make it go away. Otherwise we have talent that is never used and is waiting to get the hell out of here to play somewhere they can see the ball. Unless Francis and Mobley change their attitudes this team will never get any better. Its not talent, its playing as a team and as of now they have never shown that they can do it!

 

Raptors w/o Vince doesn't always equal a bad team. You should all know that.

Either way, we won. And we showed progress. Three games in, long way to go.

 

EJ: Seriously, when has a team this young EVER come close to doing what you are asking of them? When? NEVER! It doesn't happen. Teams like this need years to grow and mature together. Francis has shown significant improvements since his rookie season.

Maybe our expectations are just set to damn high because there is no such thing as a team that averages 25 years in age going deep into the playoffs. This team is talented and they certainly have a shot at the playoffs, but this is a tough league. It will take more than youth and talent to go beyond the first round. Mostly, it will take time.

 

Francis played great. Yao had the best game of his young NBA career. Eddie played solid d and got boards. Same goes for Cato. Mobley... subpar game. He took shots when he should have passed. Bench played ok... Why didn't Nachbar play? KT looked rusty tonight, hopefully he'll get that jumper to fall. Overall, good game. We win. You people need to show more love to Francis. That's our Franchise player. I think once Yao gets used to playing in the NBA, we'll be in the playoffs. Next up Seattle... 2-0. Should be a good one.

 

The idea that we can't complain because we won and that we can't complain because we lost two games are complete polar opposites.

If people are complaining about the way Steve plays, then it doesn't matter if we win, lose, win a lot, or lose just one. If the conversation is about the style or method of play, then it is independent of the Rocket's record.

We can win the next ten in a row, or likewise lose the next ten in a row, and the criticism of Steve won't change because some of us feel that it is his responsibility to involve the team and play unselfishly. This is a team sport, and now Steve has a team. He needs to use them.

 

Are you saying I should be happy with a win and not notice what I think will be the down fall of my team, or that I should keep it to myself and get over it? I hardly ever post as you can see, but when something bothers me I do and the fact that we have a talented point guard as good as any in the league and a shooting guard that is way above average and they choose to let the other players act like fans in the stands, it bothers me. I understand it when it is a close game, but with a large lead and they continue to do the passing to each other and the high lite shots it seems to me that is the time to involve the other players and start the team play. Then maybe I am wrong and we are going for another lottery pick this year.

 

I said, E.J., and Doc Robert, that you have every right to acknowledge and point out the teams flaws, however at least act happy the team won.

There needs to be a balance between the two, is all I am saying.

 

Fabulous post DVauthrin!!!

I think part of what the negativity is all about is just the plain "Joe fan" in Houston -- so many fans here are so OVERLY negative about everything. Astros fans, Texans fans (not as much yet, but just wait), and ESPECIALLY Rockets "fans". Half of the people starting threads now probably haven't watched 20 games over the past 3 seasons. They're just regular people who are paying attention because the Rockets are getting lots of pub, and in typical Houston "fan" fashion, are almost 100% negative.

There's nothing wrong with criticism, but come on now, I find the attitude of many posters in this forum to be overly negative. You can criticize even after a win, but from so many posts, you'd think we lost if you hadn't seen the score!

GO ROCKETS!!!!

Oh, and for the record, I think Steve and Cuttino should get the ball to the post more often.

 

Seem like all the announcers from the teams we played so far, and commentators on TV have been saying Steve/mob need to pass the ball more, only some homers here, probably Rudy too, say otherwise.

 

Who say we r not happy we won the game. I do. But I m not happy how we won it.

 

Jeff, maybe I do not explain myself well enough. Its not about the play-offs or the championship with me. It is all about the way they play.

I understand when Francis and Mobley feel the need to take the game in the 4th quarter when it is a tight game. Tonight we had a 10-14 point lead and on one play, Francis had the ball with Ming on a way shorter man in the post and choose to pass into a double team on Mobley cutting to the basket that was a turnover. Unless Francis and Mobley change their attitude on team play it does not matter how much talent the Rockets have it will never make a difference. Getting used to each other is one thing but changing your attitude that you are going to play team ball is a totally different thing.

 

Allthis tells meis that this team is going to go from decent to very good when mot ad Rice are back. if were at acouple of games above.500 atthe All Starbreak,iexpect ustofinish theseason as 6th seed and get swept by the lakers.


We're doing great considering the injuries.

 

I don't know why I even bother anymore but I am pretty convinced that people who complain the most just hate Steve Francis. Remember before the draft all the noise they made about how he'd demand a trade, force the team to pick somebody other than Ming, would give Ming the cold shoulder, and so on and so forth? He's proved everybody wrong so far, hasn't he? At first I genuinely believed that people had those concerns, but now I know that all these guys want is for Steve to step aside and let Ming and Griffin lead the team in all the categories besides assists.

I bet that if Ming led the team in scoring and rebounding, but we had a losing season, they wouldn't blame Ming. And if Francis put up numbers like Kidd, 14.7 points, 9.9 assists, and a .39FG%, they would blame the losing on Steve and say assists doesn't mean that he's making his teammates better and that he should improve his shooting. Don't deny because you guys know it's true.

Maybe it's because he is a representative of the new generation of nba players, maybe because the Rockets never had a superstar PG who can score at will, or maybe because he's just so good, I don't know what it is, but people obviously don't want Francis to be succesful except for demanding that he lead the league in assists.

As long as we're winning, I don't care what Steve does. Would I like to see him get more assists? Yes, but when key players are rookies and Griffin is clanging shots off the rim so that it sounds like a clock tower at 12 every time he plays, then it's just fine with me if he's shooting over 5 defenders. All that matters is that he makes his shots.

 

Stupid!! We would ALL deny that, because it is NOT true.

 

while the announcers do mention they should pass, they have (denver and tor) been VERY complimentary of mobley and francis (especially francis). hell the toronto guys (who i thought were quite good) gushed over francis and mobley so much sometimes i thought they were rooting for us. yeah at the end they said they should pass more but even said they'll need time to learn to play with yao and vice versa and then it should be better. that's the thing. see they can say they should pass, but they also praise them. so many on this board practically wanna throw them off the team (for "team players") b/c they don't pass enough even though they are very good and growing. some people think, give them time, means rudy should bring it up in practice tomorrow and then it's all better. give them time might mean a year, it might mean a year and a half. it might mean the all star break. who knows, but changes in all sports are very gradual. there's a reason people mention when a team is young, because everyone knows young teams struggle with different facets of the game and it takes growing up and maturing to correct those, not a few practices. patience is a very good virtue when dealing with a young team. would we all like some things to be better, of course. can you just expect that to be better tomorrow no. look for baby steps, look for good things, don't b**** and whine about every damn misstep or you'll be miserable. look for some positives along the way, and for godsakes, be a little happy when we win. only bad thing i thought about this game was francis and mobley still in the game with 4 minutes left, give the bench a little time baby.

 

Nice to get the win. Steve was really on tonight. Good to see his team feed him. Now, let's see him feed Yao and Eddie, open, hands up, under the basket. Yao nice dunk. Hope to see more aggression. Use your power. Would have liked to see Nachbar.
Hawk rocked. Cato playing verry well. Kenny Thomas was terrible. Prolly rust, I hope so. Think KT will be much better in support role. Not a good game for him - black hole, ugly shot, lotsa misses, defensive lapse. Hawk much better. Wonder why no Nachbar.

Would like to see Yao, Cato, Griffin on court together at times. Do not want to see Mooch again.

Comment from my 5-yr old daughter, 3rd qtr.: Daddy, I want the purple team to score some, too. The white team already won.

Comment , 4th qtr : - Zzzzz.

 

I'll agree with that. But it's a game by game process.

Remember, only the play-offs will do. Once there, it's
a war. But as a TEAM.

 

First let me say Steve is doing great. If he can keep shooting 50% from the floor for the rest of the season and the Rockets keep winning, I would have no problem with him holding onto the ball.

However, we know it's not gonna happen. When we face a better opponent who actually plays defense or when Steve has an off shooting night, we are going to struggle if we don't change our style of play. In the long run, in order for this team to be successful, we have to limit those ISO plays. We need to develop a half-court offense with some post presense because that is what it's going to take to win in the playoffs. In order for us to be more than a descent team, some changes have to be made. That's why I'll be the first one to claim that the future of this team lies on the development of Yao Ming. And in order for Ming to develop, we have to give him opportunities. That means for the good of the team, Steve somtimes have to make some sacrifices to limit his own offense and pass the ball to the big fella. This is especially true during games like tonight's in which we already have the control.

Just some of my opinions.