ClutchCity.net Game Thread: Knicks @ Rockets 12/27/2002

Some of the things that are being said tonight is what I REALLY HATE BOUT SOME OF U SO CALLED ROCKETS FANS! I have stuck with the Rockets through thick and thin being one of their, if not the, most suporrtive fans. 3 losses in a row is no big deal, even if we shoulda won every game.....The Rockets will go on a tear later in the season, sooner rather than later probably. Damn it, don't give up on this awesome team after 1 slump, crap! They will bounce back and they will easily make the playoffs. HAVE FAITH!

 

rockets-#1, sick and tired of those talent craps.

Talents that don't develop = Junk

How much the Rockets have to sacrifice for these young talents? The team needs to win games.

 

Most rebounds are defensive rebounds. Offensive rebound putbacks are just a bonus. Cato gets rebounds because he's vicious inside, not timid. Unlike Yao, and unfortunately, Cato's tenacity (sometimes it's there) is about the only thing he's got going. He doesn't have the offensive presence that a Yao Ming gives us. He's a better at establishing position than Yao, though.

 

Hey rockets-#1, it's called tough love. I'm not going to blindly support a team, when they're playing stupid. I find it frightening that the entire Rockets season is going to boil down to how well Mobley shoots the ball, on a game to game basis. Ken Smith and Vern Maxwell never had the talent that SF and CM have, but at least they did what they were told (well maybe not always with Max), and fed the ball inside to Dream.

The Rockets need

1. bruiser/banger to watch YM back
2. tall "pass first" pg
3. head coach that can put the smack down

Raven

 

If Yao can't get the ball in the low post, how about a pick and pop/roll? Yao can hit the 15 footer better than anyone else on this team and Rudy hasn't run this play once.

 

Since the Rockets are capable of beating strong teams, I think the losses to weak teams are just due to that Rudy is experimenting different kinds of plays at this early stage of the season. You cannot just rely on the same scheme to beat all teams.
Many have complained about the long range and 3's shots. I think it is one of the combinations that will work. Yao cannot run from inside to outside and from ouside to inside constantly without getting exhausted. If Yao can shoot under the basket and his teamates can shoot around the perimeter, then Rockets are unstoppable. The problem now is the low shooting % at the perimeter. So Rockets need more practice to increase the accuracy of shooting arround the perimeter or bring in Boki like some have said. Only when the long range shooting accuracy gets improved, the other teams will think twice before double team Yao. The Rockets have to have an anwser when teams double team Yao and the anwser is to shoot accurately at the perimeter.

 

TO Visagial:

They could get the ball to Yao but what was the point, he was getting any position and not to be overly critical but he played prett darn poorly today. Also I did not see the Shanghai Shake in today's game. Yao does not have the best medium range game on this team, I'd probaby give that honor to Taylor, although he's not back to his old form, he did play pretty well today. Posey looked pretty good out there to me, he had double digit rebounds and that block he had on Anderson was just ferocious. Francis had great numbers but for the most part I just saw him forcing the ball in and of course scoring because the Knicks' big men aren't that great. 5 rebounds for Ming that just doesn't sound right to me, at 7'6 guy but owell, he'll play better on Sunday I hope.

I still believe and think the Rockets are going to make the playoffs.

 

Yao wasn't getting any position, he was being muscled up and being pushed out which threw off his game.

 

I would like to give the Rox the benefit of the doubt.

I think Yao's missing of training camp and preseason really hurts now. Rox right now is playing a new system, moving from guard-oriented to center-oriented. Not a single Rox player was familar with it until maybe early November. I won't expect them to learn and master it overnight. Thus you see the poor offensive spacing, the poor dump inside to Yao, stuffs like this.

Now with the early success of Rox against the elite teams, teams are playing Yao differently, starting from the defensive MASTER Pat Riley.

What Riley did in Heats game is to push Yao off the paint offensively and defensively. On Yao's first touch of the ball in the Heats game, Grant threw Yao down on the court without getting a whistle, it just established pattern. Teams are just pushing him way, which lowers Yao's percentage as well as reducing Yao's putback opportunities.

Offensively, teams are using their centers to draw Yao away from the paint. Most of the centers around the league do not score that much anyway. I noticed Brian just parked outside the paint.

I expect lots of adjustments are going to be made, but it is going to take time. Yao also needs to get stronger, but it is going to take time as well. I hope he won't miss the training camp next year.

 

A few useful thoughts on the Knicks' gameplan for Yao...

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/28/sports/basketball/28KNIC.html

Rockets' Star Rookie Is Outplayed by Knicks Reserve
By CHRIS BROUSSARD


OUSTON, Dec. 27 — A center with power and skill was supposed to stun the Knicks, lead his team to victory and draw compliments from the Knicks. It happened, but with a twist.

The pivot player who had the most impact on tonight's game at the Compaq Center was not Yao Ming, the 7-foot-6 rookie for the Houston Rockets. It was Michael Doleac, the 6-11 reserve for the Knicks, who entered the game as a disappointment, averaging 3 points and 2 rebounds a game.

Whether it was pride, adrenaline or luck, Yao seemed to bring out the best in Doleac, who scored a season-high 15 points and played strong defense as the Knicks gained a 99-83 victory.

"I thought he played fantastic," Knicks Coach Don Chaney said of Doleac. "Naturally, he was supposed to be good offensively — that's why he's here. But I thought he did some great things defensively. He was fearless in getting into bodies, moving his feet, helping guys, communicating, rebounding. I thought he did a great job."

Chaney called it his team's best defensive performance of the season.

Yao finished with 17 points and 5 rebounds, but most of his production came after the Knicks built a 20-point lead with seven and a half minutes remaining. With the Knicks' starting center, Kurt Thomas, collecting 8 points and 5 rebounds and battling foul trouble, Doleac's performance, which included five rebounds, was most timely.

"I was just happy to make a contribution and be able to play some quality minutes and do a good job and make some shots," said Doleac, who was averaging fewer than 12 minutes a game but played a season-high 28 minutes tonight. "It has been a frustrating season so far, and it was nice to have a little bit of rhythm out there and play better."

The victory started the Knicks' three-game run against the N.B.A.'s Texas teams (Houston, Dallas and San Antonio) and sent them into Saturday's game at Dallas on a high.

Latrell Sprewell, breaking a four-game slump in which he averaged 13 points, led the Knicks (9-16) with 21 points, shooting 10 for 20. Allan Houston added 20 points. Led by Doleac, the Knicks' bench outscored Houston's, 41-22. Steve Francis led the Rockets (15-13) with 27 points.

The Knicks won despite attempting 24 fewer free throws than Houston, which was 33 for 43. But the Knicks overcame that by holding Houston to a season-low 23 field goals and 29.5 percent shooting, the lowest in the Rockets' 34-year history.

The Knicks shot 41.7 percent, and their strategy on offense against Yao was to attack him.

Doleac gave the Knicks their first double-digit lead when he threw down an emphatic one-handed dunk over Kelvin Cato with just under five minutes left in the third quarter.

"That's just an every once in a while thing," said Doleac, who made 6 of 9 shots. "I don't know where that comes from. I wish I did. I'm not the most athletic guy in the N.B.A., but every once in a while the stars are in alignment and everything falls into place."

Houston pulled to 71-65 heading into the fourth period, but the Knicks opened the quarter with a 16-2 run led by Charlie Ward's two 3-pointers. That kept the Rockets at bay.

Yao entered the game averaging 13 points, 7.9 rebounds and 2 blocked shots a game, production that helped the Rockets surge into the playoff picture. But Yao, who was shooting a league-best 57.3 percent, made only 5 of 12 shots tonight.

"We wanted to make sure we kept a body on him," Chaney said. "He's very deliberate and predictable in terms of his moves. If you can get him away from the basket and can get a body into him, he's going to make a few, but at least he's not right there three feet from the basket."

After a slow start that drew criticism, Yao has averaged 17.6 points, 11.3 rebounds and 3 blocks in December and has blossomed into arguably the second-best center in the N.B.A. Besides passing with great precision, he has an array of moves around the basket, a soft touch out to 18 feet, the footwork of a soccer player and the obvious ability to block and change shots defensively.

Houston's Glen Rice, in his 14th season, has already seen enough from Yao to believe he is playing beside an eventual N.B.A. great.

"He can definitely go down in the top five as far as centers because he does so many things," said Rice, whose list of top centers includes Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon.

Yao may do the unthinkable and start over O'Neal in the All-Star Game. After the first returns on voting, Yao trailed O'Neal, 480,894 votes to 471,107. Only 15 rookies have been picked to start in the All-Star Game.

Because of his professional playing career in China and his commitment to the Chinese national team, Yao has been playing nonstop for the past two years. While he seems to be enjoying himself, he said he treasured the three-day break the Rockets had before tonight's game.

"I felt like a tire that hadn't had air put in it in a long time," Yao said.

The Knicks were able to keep Yao under control in the first half. Thomas and Doleac did a good job him defensively, pushing him out to the perimeter to keep him from dominating inside. They also forced him to shoot lots of double pumps when he got near the basket. The result was a 7-point, 1-rebound first half for Yao.

The Knicks' defense was strong elsewhere; Houston was held to 31.7 percent shooting. Hitting 53.8 percent of their shots, the Knicks built a 50-41 halftime lead. Houston led the the Knicks' offense, shooting 4 for 4 from 3-point range and scoring 16 points.

 

A disgusting game!

1. I am not sure if Rudy is trying a new post-up game or not? But Yao looked like lost in the first half! He would just hang around high-post right side outside the paint so often. When he did post up in left, there are like 6 players within 4 feet around him. What's up with the spacing?

2. When Yao sits on the bench, Rockets look like totally like a junk team! They went back to the same old ISO/dribble play. We need motion offense!

Posey played really well. He pretty much shut down Sprewell after he burned Rice play after play.

Changes I hope Rudy make in the upcoming games:

1. Set up a few simple post play for Yao Ming. Don't let the guy lost in the sea outside the paint.

2. Tell Ming to shoot first and pass second!

3. Start Posey over Rice.

 

The one obvious change to make is to start Posey.
If we can not score points, at least Posey can help us shut down some of the scorer from other teams.

 

I really feel bad for Mr. VP, Tim.

This was the first time I was horribly late to a game. But when I got there, wow! I did not expect a full house. Yes, there were no shows, so I got my typical move up, but still, wow. Come on..the Knicks, who cares about the Knicks? But, I guess the Rockets did not care enough.

So here is a great sign of fans coming around...and what does everyone get to see? The worst Rockets game of the year. That will not go over well in the department of "hey, let's go to the game next week." "What game?" "The Rockets game." "Uh, remember the Knicks game last time?" "Oh, crap, why did you remind me. All right, nevermind." Yes, that is what will hapen with the 4,000 extra fans that showed up tonight.

Cool points:

I got to take a close up picture of the drummer guys. And when I was screaming really loud to "put the guy with high socks in (Posey)", within 10 seconds, Rudy T put Posey in. He should have been in way before Rice, for Rice was being abused by Spreewell, and things got way out of hand. Also, Yao cannot defend the pick and roll. When Yao is in, we need to zone. He boxes out poorly, but area rebounds okay. Or maybe a box and 1, with Posey covering the 2-3 scoring machine, and having a 2-2. Cause Posey was shutting Spree down. But Yao was getting killed, because he does not show on the PNR. They can't/don't switch coverage, and all night the guards were going behind the screen and the Knicks were canning jumpers. And then the Big man would slip the pick and nail jumpers too.

 

That's because he's all alone out there. He's got no one watching his back. Someone get Mr Mean Larry Smith a youth potion. I really think letting Kevin Willis go is coming back to haunt us.

Raven

 

Preach raven preach, tell these blind bastards

 

Ok, you're officialy back to the ground.
Good team this year, but unfortunatly there are another eight better teams in the West again.

 

I watched this debacle.

It wasn't simply that we weren't hitting shots, it's the KIND of shots that we had vs. the Knicks. Their shots were, for the most part, uncontested medium/long range jumpers, when they weren't running out on us. Pick and pop or penetrate and dish off worked endlessly- we never adjusted.

As for us, OUR OFFENSE IS BASICALLY STREET BALL/ISOS. Where is the motion? Where are the cutters? Why aren't players coming off screens? And when doesn't anyone cut to the basket when Yao has the rock in the low post?

And, while I'm at it, what good are high post Yao picks if he is not a shooting threat and the guards won't dish (where he can catch it) when he cuts to the hoop? College teams look better coached than this c*** Rudy is producing. Last nite he was outcoached by a journeyman coach

The whole < sum of the parts.

Dallas Rocket

 

Dallas Rocket - I could'nt agree more.

 

Bill Waton "good center need good power forward"

 

Yao isn't physically strong enough to gain position consistantly in the low post.